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Is convincing stars to take pay cuts becoming a necessary part of building a championship team?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017.

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  1. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    with GSW flexing and durant setting a dangerous precedent, is it possible to group together enough all stars to be competitive without at least one of them taking a paycut?

    If you are a star player do you need to choose between money and winning now?

    If Im a player, I have a problem with durants decision because of this. Im sure lebron is pissed lol

    Merge with KD thread if necessary but I thought this discussion about how to build a championship team DESERVED its own thread

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ya...precedent-threatens-nba-parity-034154442.html
     
    #1 Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017
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  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    I would think stars would do this more often because as an NBA champ they should be able to make up the income through the additional endorsements they can pull down.
     
    #2 KingCheetah, Jul 4, 2017
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    I don't see how any fan has a right to complain about an NBA player/star taking LESS money to play, regardless of the motivation. That just seems like an impossible complaint to me.
     
    #3 Os Trigonum, Jul 4, 2017
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  4. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    I dont care how much $ is in their pockets, i just care if they find ways to pervert the system in place that is meant to create parity.

    At this point, lebrons going to have to sign somewhere for the MLE in order to be competitive vs golden state haha
     
    #4 Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017
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  5. Coach E

    Coach E Member

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    100% yes.

    I'm not sure how long it lasts, probably till the next CBA.

    Let's just hope we're on the super team side until then.
     
    #5 Coach E, Jul 4, 2017
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  6. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    I don't see it as perverting the system. These guys are free to make their own decisions, no?
     
    #6 Os Trigonum, Jul 4, 2017
  7. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    They are very free to. There is nothing immoral about what they are doing. I cant force him not to. Thats not my point. He is in control of his own life and future. He doesnt owe anything to fans.

    From a fans perspective, it is very true that he is making the nba more boring when he does that though. Fans dont have to apologize for being dissapointed when athletes make decisions that harm the entertainment value of a product that we spend $ on.

    You dont think lowry and millsap making more than KD is a perversion?

    Salary caps were put into place in order to help prevent teams from having too many top level stars. He doesnt have to choose what our system hoped to influence him to choose but I dont have to apologize for being dissapointed that he didnt
     
    #7 Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    You were a philosophy major, no? didn't you ever read Robert Nozick's discussion of the Wilt Chamberlain example to refute inequality arguments re: compensation? This is an argument that goes back to Babe Ruth getting paid more than the President: "Well, I had a better year than he did."

    I don't think these harm-based arguments ("when athletes make decisions that harm the entertainment value of a product that we spend $ on") can possibly hold up.
     
    #8 Os Trigonum, Jul 4, 2017
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  9. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    The big 3 took pay cuts to play together in Miami
     
    #9 YOLO, Jul 4, 2017
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  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Most likely yes. Will be very difficult for the Rockets with Harden getting a supermax and Paul likely getting his 5 year max as well.
     
    #10 justtxyank, Jul 4, 2017
  11. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    Never studied Nozick. Heard of him plenty though. Is he worth reading? My favorite philosopher is David Hume but that is neither here nor there. :p

    We will have to agree to disagree. We both agree these guys are free to do what they want but we have a fundamental difference when it comes to a fans perspective.

    I view the league as having less entertainment value when this many great players find ways to team up and be in a league of their own (which is all I care about as a fan. An athlete can make 10 billion or 2 dollars for all I care. Just dont harm the entertainment value of what I like to watch)

    This paycut directly harms the entertainment value of the league in my eyes.

    You dont believe that it harms the entertainment value of the league. We differ in opinions because of that viewpoint.

    That babe ruth joke was because they only had 1 year contracts then. He was joking that he got paid a lot but no security year to year lol
     
    #11 Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017
  12. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    i'm more in favor of a more socialistic approach to contracts where everybody makes an equal amount.
     
    #12 Jontro, Jul 4, 2017
  13. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    You read my mind. Came here to ask the same question.

    Yes, I think if the best teams are doing it, then that's a competitive advantage you have to match.
     
    #13 Mathloom, Jul 4, 2017
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  14. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    @Os Trigonum thought experiment: if every top 10 player signs for vet minimim to join one team and the rest of the nba is the washington generals do yoy believe that the entertainment value of the league suffers?

    If no: then we just disagree
    If yes: where do you put the threshold between that and what KD did?
     
    #14 Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017
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  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    note I am emphatically NOT disagreeing with your empirical statement, "it harms the entertainment value of the league." On that you and I agree. I simply disagree that that empirical observation can lead to a moral conclusion that (a) because this harms fans that therefore (b) this is a reason to not allow such decisions by players.

    If you want to restructure how salaries and payrolls are done in the NBA, then I think you've got to come up with a better argument. Because "Just don't harm the entertainment value of what I like to watch" is not a sufficient reason to infringe on Kevin Durant's (or anyone else's) decision to take LESS money than allowed. That just seems bizarre to me.
     
    #15 Os Trigonum, Jul 4, 2017
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  16. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    See then we are not disagreeing. I never said that it was morally incorrect or that we shouldnt allow it. I also never said that we should change the system. Im dissapointed that he perverted the system.

    I simply said fans shouldnt apologize for being dissapointed that he did this because it makes the nba more boring to us.

    I never said we can make a rule against it or hes a bad person.

    I dont think we are disagreeing on anything.

    Unless it Is your point that fans have no right to feel dissapointed?
     
    #16 Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017
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  17. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    How can you hate on the guy taking less money to play on a championship team? Chris Paul just turned down at least 12M by taking the option on his old contract instead of signing a new one that would give him the max. The big 3 all took around 3M discounts in Miami so they can all play together. Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki both took less than the max so Spurs and Mavs can pay other guys. Michael Jordan only made 7M for most of his career.

    Discounts are nothing new in the NBA.
     
    #17 roslolian, Jul 4, 2017
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  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    fair enough. sure you can feel disappointed. sure, Lebron can be pissed at KD. I just don't think it's worth getting worked up about. If the owners and players are unhappy with this turn of events, then they're going to have to put their thinking caps on next time around and modify the CBA for the good of all.
     
    #18 Os Trigonum, Jul 4, 2017
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  19. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    How can you hate on the guy taking less money to play on a championship team? Chris Paul just turned down at least 12M by taking the option on his old contract instead of signing a new one that would give him the max. The big 3 all took around 3M discounts in Miami so they can all play together. Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki both took less than the max so Spurs and Mavs can pay other guys. Michael Jordan only made 7M for most of his career.

    Discounts are nothing new in the NBA.
     
    #19 roslolian, Jul 4, 2017
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  20. Daddy Long Legs

    Daddy Long Legs H- Town Harden

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    Exactly! Im not saying that I'm king or God and can regulate what should happen. I agree that it is his right and he owes us nothing. I also agree that it is bizarre for us to not ALLOW him to take less then hes worth.

    My biggest point is, it makes it tough to compete so are we going go have to coerce guys to take pay cuts to compete now?

    I think fans, star players, or anyone else have the right to feel dissapointed just as KD has the right to negotiate his own compensation.

    Btw, I didn't know that you read philosophy. Ive read very few American philosophers. Is he worth reading and learning from?
     
    #20 Daddy Long Legs, Jul 4, 2017
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