1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Young guys, old guys or new guys?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Jeremy Williams, Nov 28, 2022.

?

Which direction should the Astros go from here?

  1. Let the young guys play (Leon, Hensley, Lee, Meyers, Chas, Yainer)

    8 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Bring the old guys back (Brantley, Yuli)

    8 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Sign more bats! (Contreras, Nimmo, Alfaro, Conforto, etc)

    16 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Jeremy Williams

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    878
    @Snake Diggit made a great post earlier i thought we could explore.

    What would your PRIMARY focus be going forward for our offense?

    I’ll turn it into a poll.
     
    Shark44 and Snake Diggit like this.
  2. CisBuds4U

    CisBuds4U Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    I voted Option 3 but really I want 1 & 3.

    Regarding young guys: CF is Chas' job to lose at this point. I think he should be the going in starting CF at Spring Training and barring a total collapse in skillset, get the starting CF job. A big issue I had with how Dusty handled Chas was he never really got the chance to get into a groove with the platooning and (cough) overplaying Dubon. Chas needs consistent playing time so the Astros can evaluate what they have once and for all. Give him 40-50 games to prove it as a starter. His defense is only behind like 5 other starting CFers in the league and his strikeouts already came down -- if he can get his OBP up a little more he'll be a solid player. He's probably gonna give you 20+ HRs as well. Likewise, Hensley has earned a shot in a utility role and won't cost nearly as much as A.Diaz.

    Option 3: I want MOAR bats. I want our lineup to be a juggernaut so I am definitely in favor of finding that lefty hitting big bopper or contact hitter. The real question is -- are we re-signing JV and if so, will Crane still open up his wallet? If he does resign JV, I'm guessing we try to lock in Brantley at a good deal -- obviously his injuries are still a big question mark. If JV walks, then we should go hard for Benintendi and maybe also Contreras.

    The Astros have a 3-ish year window to continue to win Championships before we have some difficult decisions to make regarding pitching and 2 years before Bregman and Altuve enter free agency. Crane probably realizes these next 2-3 years are our best shot at winning 1,2, maybe 3 more championships... he should just say "f* it" and sign back JV, Benintendi, Brantley and a back-up catcher and win win win.
     
    Shark44 likes this.
  3. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    11,249
    Likes Received:
    15,274
    I believe in stacking the roster 1-40. My opinion is that recent seasons have shown a relative market inefficiency wrt depth. 15 players got >100 pa for Houston last season, 16 pitchers got 20+ ip. Workload management, matchup management, and injury replacements all become easier with depth. So with that in mind I would be in favor of bringing in as many good players as it takes to have quality depth on the bench AND in AAA. I want the young players to have to force their way onto the roster. As long as free agent contracts are limited in length there is very little risk of blocking a prospect or losing value from young players.
     
    #3 Snake Diggit, Nov 28, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
    Shark44 and Jeremy Williams like this.
  4. Shark44

    Shark44 71er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 1999
    Messages:
    4,162
    Likes Received:
    7,524
    I agree and maybe JW can change poll to allow more than one vote.

    I really want to see Leon get a shot in CF and give him a chance to compete with Chas in the Spring. I believe he's a special talent and can cut down those strike outs could be a potential star. Also, agree that Hensley looked good in his limited opportunities, but should have a shot to replace Diaz.

    However, like you, it would be nice to have 1-2 more vet bats in areas of need. While Contreras sounds idea for C/1B/DH roles, I'd be ok bringing back Christian Vazquez and giving Lee one more year in AAA. Another LH OF bat would be nice, and maybe Conforto is the best value of those available.

    Just glad we got Abreu, he solidifies the infield and should fit well with the clubhouse. Great move by Crane and the asst GMs!
     
    CisBuds4U likes this.
  5. Jeremy Williams

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    878
    I love this thinking. I know we want our young guys to have "a path" to play, but I also want depth.

    I'd include Chas in 8 players I think are locks for the offense. Dubon would make 9 unless he's DFA'd at some point.

    Lee, Hensley, Leon, Yainer, Meyers--they can all earn it.
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  6. Jeremy Williams

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    878
    I'm not sure how to change the poll now that it has been set.
     
  7. Shark44

    Shark44 71er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 1999
    Messages:
    4,162
    Likes Received:
    7,524
    Did you try to edit post and check the box that allows multiple selections? If it won't let you do that, then it's too late.
     
  8. Yordan The Great

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2019
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    6,041
    Don't sign Yuli. Let a prospect play instead.

    Now I would sign Brantley if he's healthy. He's a professional hitter and a tremendous teammate.

    You can't turn the catcher position over to a prospect. Too much at stake. So either we stick with Maldonado or we get Contreras/Vazquez.
     
  9. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,279
    Likes Received:
    5,237
    Pedro Leon, Korey Lee, Yainer Diaz, and possibly even Jake Meyers have the potential to become above average starters in this league... possibly even making an all-star team here and there. Not all of them will realize this potential. The only way to find out who can convert potential into results is to play these guys. Playing them is a nice motivator for the vets... helps promote team chemistry... and it helps create the most valuable asset in MLB -- a good young player under team control. It's literally how the Astros got to this point -- by realizing outstanding results from young players under team control.

    Signing old vets should be done on a spot basis only. In the case of Abreu it's totally fine. However, it should not be done 3x in one offseason -- that's risky, expensive, and it stunts our player development pipeline.
     
  10. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    11,167
    Likes Received:
    12,436
    Yuli brings a lot to the table. Having to choose between him and Brantley would be tough for me. Brantley is left handed and that helps a lot with our new guy. But if we get a good bargain contract then I like those guys. Chaz has earned CF. A healthy yuli and/or Brantley would be a luxury in late inning playoff games. We have enough to win the west right now.
     
    Jeremy Williams likes this.
  11. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2021
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    1,096
    If Leon continues through winter ball and Spring training like he looks as if he will, he and Chaz will play for LF/CF starter. Meyers, Dubon, and possibly Dirden competing for the bench spot.
     
  12. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    19,181
    Likes Received:
    28,021
    I think the idea of Yuli as a utility player is absolute sentimentality. The numbers showed that his range wasn't even good for a 1B at this point in his career. I'm sure he could play 2B/3B without embarrassing himself, but he's likely terrible defensively in both spots. I'm taking Hensley in an easy choice.

    Brantley is a tricky one without knowing the cost. If we're talking less than 10 million I'm taking the chance on his proven lefthanded bat, but there's too many question marks to pay him much IMO. I would rather leave DH/LF as a flex spot for young players to see if we can find an internal solution and add a bat at the deadline if we absolutely have to.

    The problem we've seen with Dusty is that if given a veteran, he will always play the veteran ahead of the young player. The only time he plays a prospect is when he's given absolutely no choice but to do so. Maybe with Click gone there will be better communication and that may change, but I doubt it. If Dusty were willing to play ball, we could just work the prospects in via attrition.

    TBH basically nothing that could have happened this offseason would have changed my expectation for the 2023 season. We're gonna be loaded no matter what, I'm more concerned with trying to keep the train rolling in the future. My biggest fear with the recent developments is that Crane may have a very myopic view of prioritizing the now in a sport where doing so doesn't increase your chances all that much.
     
    #12 sealclubber1016, Nov 29, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2022
  13. Jeremy Williams

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    878
    I think a case can be made for Yuli as a bench bat and UTIL IF, with most of that UTIL work coming from 1B. The only way this is justifiable is if he's on a min contract. Something like 3-4M.
     
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,294
    Likes Received:
    113,099
    If Click or even Luhnow was still the GM, Yuli wouldn't be back. I think you save money and give Hensley a shot. If he is adequate, you have the spot filled for nearly half a decade at low money. If Hensley falls apart, you go to the minors or trade tiny assets for one. It isn't a pressing need really.

    I was not huge on bringing Brantley back when the season ended. However, if you look at his advanced numbers and his performance last year, it was actually quite good. He was a 25-30% better than average hitter last season (OPS+ 125-130), he was having his best month of the season when he was hurt and while his power was down, it wasn't entirely anemic.

    Even defensively he was only slightly below average because he reads the ball very well and 99% of the time makes the right play/decision.

    At this point he is a 50% LF and 50% at DH, and that is how the Astros used him last season. Alvarez is getting closer to being a 50% LF and 50% DH as well, so there is no reason that they cannot trade off at DH.

    The down-side is that both can be injury prone and from what I am hearing, the Astros really want another outfielder that is borderline elite defensively.

    Right now, Baker has as much say as he has ever had. He did a very good job overall last year and the hope is that he doesn't have impact beyond this season when it comes to free agency and the minor league system. He can be a voice but not "the voice" in the room.

    Ehh there are things that they could have done, or can do that increase our chances.

    This is my concern, the reality is without plugging in some younger players, this isn't sustainable and we lost the director of player development, we haven't had a lot of draft picks and our top scout is mediocre IMO. We also lost the man that played a large part in our international success. It isn't all doom and gloom, but it could be slowing down or coming to an end.
     
    xcrunner51 and Jeremy Williams like this.
  15. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2021
    Messages:
    5,495
    Likes Received:
    6,237
    Meyers was elite defensively and above average with the bat in 2021 before getting hurt.

    After a lost 2022 he should be recovered for 2023.

    I'm not saying they should hand CF to him but him winning the job in spring training would not surprise me. And would make me happy as I really liked him after Straw was traded.

    He doesn't turn 27 until June so theoretically hasn't peaked yet.

    If he can perform like he did in 2021 over 150g. (3.5PA/g = 525PA)

    26 doubles 19 hr 90 rbi and .761 OPS with elite, gold glove calibur defense in CF from the 8 spot in the order

    I think he is capable of that but needs to show in spring training that he is fully back.

    2022 hurt him quite a bit but it wasn't his fault Click rushed him back.
     
    jim1961 likes this.
  16. Jeremy Williams

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    878
    Based on Crane's words during the press conference, the Astros are indeed targeting a C.
     
  17. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2000
    Messages:
    14,191
    Likes Received:
    4,867
    I don't fully disagree - but, also, Dusty was reportedly the one fighting to bat Pena #2. It's likely a case-by-case basis: if the prospect is good, Baker is going to play them. I absolutely think there is - and should be - a place for Hensley, Chas, Meyers, etc. - but I think the reason Baker doesn't play them more is he views them - right or wrong - as very average MLBers.
     
    Jeremy Williams likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now