I misread your post into thinking that it said that whites would never understand. My mistake.... Well, I fouled up the magnitude of Sishir's original point. It depends on how much leeway you'll give minorities because of that understanding. I define racism as using power or authority in order to enforce bigotted actions. Who's to say that if a minority becomes the majority, then they'll use that prior understanding of being oppressed to correct the previous majority's mistakes? It'd be much easier to exploit the current racial system because they've experienced it first hand and now they're on top.
you are probably right. I do not understand how terrible racism can be. I understand you want to point it out if it happens. But There are a lot of cases(not saying it hapens to you) where people scream racism where there is no. And that is stupid. If i hear somebody saying(this was on a tv reality show). "Because i'm black everybody want me to fail and they treat me like i'm sh*t" 2 minutes later the same person says" i hate it when black man date white woman, you should never date out of your race" So the girl herself was a racist. Like i said i can understand that you are a bit sensitive, because a lot of people are racists. But just do not think that everybody is one. First find out if what their intentions are. It doesn't help if people cry racist the moment somebody uses a word that somebody else might be offended to. Because they might not know that it can be an offensive word(for instance i always thought that asian people didn't mind the term Oriental, i even thought they preffered it, that does not make me a racist). If i know anybody doesn't like the word i will probably not use it anymore(unless i foget people do not like it). But the fact remains if i say Oriental and i do not mean it in a negative way it cannot be racism, even though you are offended by it. About the Active and passive racism. Active racism is a terrible thing. But passive racism doesn't matter. because it has no effect on you.IMHO. But like i said i never experienced being a minority, so i might feel different if i had experienced it.
I think we're both talking about the same thing. We shouldn't be quick to accuse people of racism but should let people know when they inadvertantly make a racist remark or action. Where I disagree though is that passive racism doesn't matter. IMO it matters more than active racism. If someone is a racist or harbors racist tendencies I want to know because then I can avoid them or deal with them directly. OTOH people who aren't oppenly racist pose more of a problem because you never know where you stand with them or why they did something negatively to you. Passive racism that is born out of ignorance is also a big problem because if it isn't challenged it just continues to foster those attitudes. For instance if people only know big athletic blacks who don't know well in school their attitude is that all blacks are athletic but aren't very smart. While this isn't malicious racism since they don't know any other blacks if left unchallenged it fixes in their mind that attitude and also allows it to spread as they teach their family and friends that blacks are athletic but not smart.
Yes, I agree it happens and it isn't helpful when it does happen. However, keep things in perspective. Actual racism occurs probably a gillion times more often than minorities crying wolf. Take your example, is a reality TV show occurance the best example you can provide? I can probably give you 10 examples of racism in my life for every one fake-racism call. Given that, is it really a surprise that people sometimes call racism when they shouldn't? Maybe they just made a mistake. Afterall, whenever a white person makes a racist mistake, often people are pretty dismissive. Why is that? Racism? I dunno. I don't call this racist but I understand why others would. It is pretty common that when people get married with dramatically different backgrounds, it doesn't work out. This is seen all over the world and all different races and religions. Jews often marry internally. Is that racist? I dunno but I understand why. Because people are racist and often these relationships fail due to their differences. Yea, your dead wrong on this one!!! Active racism is sometimes better because I can confront it. Passive racism is often worse because I don't even know it is there, usually. When I'm on a job interview or even something as silly meeting somebody at a neighborhood meeting. People often will politely pre-judge me and discount my opinion, if I can even speak at all. Happens all the time. But I can't confront them on it because they won't admit it and then I'm the one that looks like an ass. Passive racism, IMO, is worse because in this day in age, it is more pervasive!!!
Ok this time i'm gonna reply to Sishir Chang and krosfyah at the same time. i know there are more cases of people being discriminated, then there are cases of people cleaming it happened when it did not. But imo both are not good. Ofcourse the racist is worse then the person who cleams somebody else is a racist when in fact he is not. But when i see either of these happening i'm gonna say something about it. And i believe you both would to. About the passive racism, why does it matter that somebody thinks all black are athlets and not so smart? If he isn't gonna use it in real life. The moment he doesn't hire a black man because he thinks he is not smart it is not passive racism. Or when he doesn't hire a white person because he is not athletic. i do not care if everybody thinks i'm a drugs dealer, because i'm not. So i do not care if they think i am. But that is just me. And maybe it is a poblem fr you, and in that case i can understand. It is your right to dislike it. So i'm not gonna complain to yo it shouldn't bother you, but i'l will give you a advice it is alot easier if it doesn't matter to you what others think. But Krosfyah if people do not listen to your opinion because you are black(you are black, right??) then it is a terrible thing. but i think that is pretty active racism. I think that even tough some people might think that black people are less smart they will listen to an intelligent black man(atleast i hope so, but you are probably right that alot of people do not do that). I think we all agree on most part. Racism is a terrible thing, and people claiming racism when it is not there is also not good. Right. i would also like to ad that i enjoy this discussion alot, It is good for us all to hear the other opinion on such a delicate subject, Most discusions people have on these subject end in a bashing war, i'm glad that doesn't happen in this discussion. about the mixed culture relationships, i agree that somethimes these things do not work oput because of the differances, but when that girl said it she also said something like: White girls should not steal our man, because they are not good enough for them. But i do not mind if anybody says that, but if that same person just claimed that everybody treated her wrong because she is black i sart to have a problem with it. OPne more thing, don't get me wrong i really cannot stand racism,. when i see it in my environment i can get really mad. (example when i saw the movie time for a kill, i just got to emotional and angry, and i never let a movie get to me, i did not even cry when i saw Bambi I knoe a movie is different from the real world, but i just wanted to ad this so you both know that i really cannot stand racism. May i ask you both one question: do you think the NBA doesn't want Yao to succeed because he is from China? Or do you think referee's will not call a foul on him because he is chinees? Just interested.
Arno_ed; I think where Krosfyah and me disagree with you is on what is considered passive racism. I think you're saying that if someone harbors a racist belief knowingly or just out of ignorance but that doesn't influence their actions or attitudes that shouldn't bother us. I think that would almost never be the case because even if someone doesn't openly express a belief that will always color one's actions towards someone. For instance in your example where people think you are a drug dealer. Say you're applying for a job that according to the application you're qualified for and you get turned down and the person tells you that he didn't think you had the right experience for it. Later on you over hear that person telling someone else he thinks you're a drug dealer. When you confront him on it he says that had nothing to do with whether you got the job or not it was just that he didn't think you had the right job experience for the position. Now are you going to accept it on face value that he is telling you the truth or do you think that maybe his opinion was colored by his belief that he thinks you're a drug dealer? Or even if he does hire you but goes around telling people you're a drug dealer behind your back. There's nothing active in his bias since he's hired you but at the same time he's spreading the false impression that you're a drug dealer to other people and those people are likely to judge you on that false basis. So even though no one has actively called you a drug dealer or tried to have the cops arrest you that passive bias still can cause you a lot of problems. You want to get this moved to that cesspool the GARM? I actually don't think Yao being Chinese has anything to do with bad or good calls. I think Yao hasn't established a level of respect with the refs as a player and being quiet and passive has something to do with that. As Yao asserts himself more the refs will give him more breaks as they do all stars in the NBA.
Keep in mind I am not really being literal. I don't even mean it as specific white people or anythig, I just mean that I dislike the category of "white people" as a group (and this is an AMerican group, by the way). In general, I think that "white people" are stupid. Just because.
as one of those white people i'm deeply offended. i'm not stopid. i spent all day yesterday being offended at the patronization of my irish heritage. i've spent the past 5 years being offended by lawyer jokes. the mockery of Christians has offended me for years. and B-Bob's incessant rants of me as a lover of spiderman are just downright painful.
Sishir Chang. I think you are right that Passive Racism almost never happens because it almost always has an influence on you. Like the example you gave. So i think i agree with you. Racism is a terrible thing. And it is ashame that people are somethimes ignorant. But(yes indeed opne But again) why would you mind if people say oriental? can you explain that to me? Thanks(just interested). Is it perhaps that you think people use that term to downgrade you? Because it hink alot of people use those kind of terms because they see no harm in it. And then i think it is not racism, because they do not know you do not like it. Ofcourse if you tell them you do not like it they should stop using it. but why is it a negative term? I asked that about Yao because that was one of the things that anoyed me int the GARM, that alot of people said that he didn't get the calls because he was chinees. I'm glad you did not think that. but i also expected it because you seem an intelligent person.
I think Yao doesn't get calls because he moves slow, looks guilty when he fouls and doesn't have the respect of the refs. I don't beleive the refs call fouls based on ethnicity. It seems your definition of passive/active is different than mine. I call name calling and violence active. I call grabbing your purse when I get on the elevator passive. When the person isn't being uncivil to me, that is passive. Unfortunately, I have to do business with those people and their passive judgements about me have an impact. Here's a great example of passive racism: I had a friend named Lamar who was looking for a job. He rarely got any return phone calls when applying for a job. Later, he changed his resume to list his middle name, James, instead. He got 3 callbacks immediately. Here is another example: When trying to sell our house, we left all our family photos around the house. We didn't get any serious inquiries on the house. Once we removed all the photos, we had more inquiries. Cooincidence? Who knows. All I have is experience to offer you. What people think about you is important. Perception is reality.
Compare it to boxing: It's just like Puerto Ricans rooting for Felix Trinidad, Nicaraguans rooting for Ricardo Mayorga, Ukranians rooting for Vitali Klitschko, Mexicans rooting for Erik Morales, Filipinos rooting for Manny Pacquiao. It's ethnic pride, you support your countrymen, it's an innate trait.
You don't understand because most American sports are NATIONAL sports. When you participate some WORLD sports you will understand. In the Olympics, do you support an American athlete or a foreign athlete.
Suppose there is an inter-planet basketball league and the players from the other planets are all 8 feet tall with mad skills. Tim Duncan is the only player on our planet earth who is good enough to play in that league. Now you have a chance to go to Mars and attend one of Duncan's game. Would you support and cheer for him?
Considering the Sly Stone wrote, starred and directed it, I don't think that was going to happen. I think the story is based on a black guy though. I think it's ok to have some animosity against YOFs. But it's nothing to get upset about. Being a big Rockets fan for many years, it's always been about the team. Players come and go. I just feel sorry for YOFs. They will ever know how great it is to be a HOUSTON ROCKET fan.
thread should've ended after that. i just got back from monterrey, mexico and now that i think about it... i noticed no basketball ads in the city at all except for a sports beverage (can't remember which... gatorade maybe?) ad in an oxxo convenience store... featuring eduardo najera of all players. yeah, it's a nationality thing... not race.
You may have a point about the YOFs, but it's in the wrong thread. The OP was just talking about a group of fans who cheered for Yao in a Warriors game. I can't see how we can label some people YOFs only because they were seen cheering for Yao Ming in a game. Have you cheered for Yao in a game before?
