I find the term "White" offensive. Period. If everyone would refrain from using the term "white people" so much, I'd appreciate it. The correct term is "Euro-American", OK? Now that I've said I find it offensive, anyone using it from now on is being insensitive.
i think with many muslims it was the same with hakeem. obviously the younger generation follow sports. but the elders really discussed the rockets during dinners just because of hakeem. its great. you get into the sport due to personalities you can sympathize with and than you learn the sport and become an avid fan. whats wrong with that? how is it different than rooting for the rockets simply because im from houston?
Euro-American is repetitive. If you want to call yourself Irish-German-Cherokee-Italian American go right ahead. Blacks don't have that privelege of lineage. Their names have been Euro-American-ified, and their family history has been purposely destroyed. Why does it matter? You realize that you're playing the same game as the people you resent?
here's a link: http://www.arthurhu.com/index/aintell.htm (hardly "offical" i admit) That "Bell Curve" book also says Asians tend to score higher on IQ tests. I've never seen any study which says Asians perform on par with other racial categories. We also have the highest median household income in the US. This kind of debunks the "white are racists and minorities need Affirmative Action" theory. I suppose if we go by statistics (SAT, IQ, $$, unemployment, loan approval, convict%) - whites like Asians better than themselves. We're not even treated as minorities anymore in the LAUSD. It's "white/asian" and "non-asian minorites". In fact, affirmative action (ie. racial quota) tends to penalize Asians the most. Like I said, Asians get the sh*t end of the stick. That's why I'm an angry-asian-man. But I suppose that's for another forum. I personally don't buy into this IQ stuff. I just use it as ammo when someone tells me Asians are physically effeminate.
Yes I am playing the same game. It's just that in the US - the political correctness movement which deflects criticism of non-Asian minorites does not seem to extend to Asians. Look at affirmative action. It generally IS okay to label us as weak and meek - and physically inferior. That's why I use the IQ defense to counter that we, as a race, may in fact have good qualities that are worth enduring and propagating. I admit that it's f*cked up. But if we are to be considered weaker by some sectors of the general public - well then I'm telling them we're smarter too
So now you're making fun of our preferred racial designation? Now that's offensive. I'm English and French. Euro-American is my preferred designation. Please try and respect our feelings.
What the hell are you talking about. I never said that he should or should not be offended if called Oriental. I merely pointed out that Asian and Oriental are not exactly the same thing. I am talking about the meaning of words, the definition if you will. He never defined Oriental, so I don't know where you are getting that from. I only mentioned political correctness in the context of Native Americans, and didn't make a judgement on it one way or the other, so I don't see any connection to some hypothetical PC debate. I didn't tell Sisher what to be offended or not offended by, mostly I asked some questions, trying to have a civilized discussion. In fact, I used the word offensive twice in my post, once when discussing where the sensitivity to the word Oriental came from, and once when ASKING what his feelings where on a word, exactly what you later suggested I do. I didn't say ANYTHING to you, so I don't know how you jumped to the conclusion that I was telling YOU what to be or not be offended by. I would suggest that you worry more about your habit of butting into things and throwing around accusations of racism and less about perceived slights against you. In other words, I invite you to mind your own business, or at least refrain from hurling your invective in my direction.
First of all I'm glad you don't buy into the IQ stuff. The Bell Curve book has long since been debunked as unscientific, and invalid. Secondly Asians median income doesn't disprove affirmitive action. It actually supports the theorey that immigrants to the U.S. by choice do very well. Argentinians, Eastern Europeans, etc. all do well. The groups that don't are those that were enslaved colonized or wiped out. Hawaiians, Mexicans, African Americans, and American Indians tend to do more poorly. But I believe that Asians should be angry, because despite their properity their interests don't receive the same attention as others. During the Rodney King riots the national guard originally was sent to Korea Town to protect that area. After a phone call from higher up the guard left Korea Town and moved to protect Beverly Hills. The thing problem is that unless Asians stand together and demand attention they will still have limited power in the government. Lastly, what statistic are you talking about within LAUSD? I work for LAUSD, and I can promise you that Asians are counted as minorities on school records. Usually it is even broken up more specifically between Hmong cultures, Arabic/Persian, etc. These statistics are listed differently different places depending on needs of an English Language Learner vs. English Only families, vs. a child that is initially English proficient, but other languages are still spoken in their home. As far as requirements on providing culturally relevant material and addressing hte needs of individual learners, it is broken up almost country by country. There may some form or place in LAUSD where whites and Asians are in the same category, but certainly not in LAUSD as a whole.
Since you personally find it offensive, I will try not use the term "white" with you if you're being genuine. Afterall, if you and I were speaking face-to-face, and you asked me not to use that term but I continued to use it any, that is highly disrespectful, right? If enough "white" people agree with you, you are right...it is being culturally insensitive. Why is that a hard concept to get? Is it because you've never been a target of a word with a negative connotation?
No, it is not. Euro is short for European. American means someone from the Americas. A Euro-American is someone from the Americas of European descent. It is no more or less repetitive than African-American, Asian-American, or Native American. I don't think it is necessary for others to call me a Euro-American (I don't have much use for racial identifiers in general, but am okay with simple ones like black and white if people feel one is necessary), just person or my name is more than adequate. Fatty is pointing out the double standard employed by krosfyah, probably because of his unneccessarily snarky response to my post. I doubt that Fatty really cares if people use the term Euro-American, he was just pointing out that just because someone says something is offensive, doesn't neccessarily mean that their opinion will become the social norm that we should all feel compelled to live by.
The reason why terms get labelled as offensive to the point that they are unacceptable has little to do with what offens one person or another. It has to do with how that word was used by those in power to demean a certain group. Whites have always had the power, and still do. Nobody has been able to use their power to put whites in a situation where they are lessened or demeaned by being white or anything else. Any term may be personally offensive but no term is demeans the status of whites as a whole since they still have the power. Pretending that other groups shouldn't be offended by some terms is ignorant. That being said I'm actually incredibly agains PC. I don't believe the term Oriental is offensive. Technically those in Saudi Arabia are in the Oreint, but it has come to mean something different. It is more easily identify than Asian. After all a person from Israel is an Asian as is a person from Laos. It is ridiculous to have Asian as a classification. It is too broad. That being said, I won't continue to use Oreintal if I'm around people offended being called an oriental.
The whole "XXX-American" ethnic designation is bs. Theresa Heinz Kerry got in a flap a few years ago by applying the term to herself: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/24/121520.shtml (notice how the inplied hyphenization is now the point of debate-LOL) Some white student from Africa was disqualified from applying for an "African-American" scholarship. If we're going to categorize people by skin color, let's just be honest about it. I don't think anyone of "PC-crowd" would consider a white person who was born and bred in China (and spoke no English) and later emigrated to the US - anything but white.
Thx. Good post. I may be wrong about the LAUSD (i'm usually wrong a few hundred times a day ). While we do receive our own racial categorization, are we given the same benefits? I know that the LA Times conveniently ignores us and groups us with whites when they try to prove a political point. Are we treated as "equitably" as other minorities? Do they bus poor Asian kids to better schools? I know that most implementations of affirmative action penalize us in favor of non-Asian minorities. I do not know if the LAUSD has any control over affirmative action policies.
Indians and Orientals (what do you call Pacific region Asians that aren't Pacific Islanders anyways??) were left out because they worked outside the system, played the game of networking and were fairly successful out of it. While there are a lot of Asians who are at the poverty level, the establishment chose to look at the silver lining in order to bait the Asian race against other minorities. Persians traditionally don't need AA either, but since they're a threat to the majority in a different sense, they aren't looked as Model Minorities. Model Minorities, of course, tell other races to be like US. Generally, I doubt American soldiers thought the Japanese were weak in WW2. You don't need physical superiority in civilization. While Native Americans were strong and hearty, they got the **** end of the stick. Personally, if someone considers you weak, then put them back in place. That's where the anger boils down to, right? Do you want a mad crazy Asian or a weak meak Asian? It matters doesn't it? Oh well, that's the game. Whites are the standard plain vanilla race. Blacks are hypersexualized to the masculine nature, while Asians to the feminine nature. By claiming that your race is smarter, do you imply that Blacks are dumber? I don't intend to characturize the White man laughing in the corner, but general perception in the media over the last 200 years makes it pretty damn difficult.
I'm not employing a double standard. In fact, Fatty proved my point. If he doesn't want me to call him "white" then I won't. Simple. If enough white people keep saying that, then none of will use it. Again, simple. It isn't a double standard. It is basic ettiquette. If you continue to call somebody a name against their wishes I don't know how to call that anything but disrespectful. FranciseBlade sums it up pretty well. Terms become derogotory for some historical reason which is typically rooted in the systematic attempt to demoralize people. Many terms are used so frequently that people forget the history. Kinda like saying Q-Tip about a cotton swap. Its used so frequently that it is common place. But the fact remans that not all cotton swabs are Q-Tips. So frequency doesn't make it right. If you want to know if it is right, ask the people that care. In this example, ask a competetor to Q-Tips if they appreciate their product being referred to as a Q-Tip. Of course they don't!!! It amazes me this seemingly simple concept is so hard to grasp. However, I do understand the frustration of people because it takes work to keep up with this stuff and its hard to change habits. But your laziness to find truth or unwillingness to change doesn't make it right.
So much to respond to so little time. I'll try to keep this brief. 1. While it is true that there are genetic differences among the races overall there are far greater variation among any subgroup within a race than between the races overall. The Human Genome Study proved this by sampling a very wide variety of humans to develop a model genome. What they found was that people from Zimbabwe, Texas, Germany and Korea in general were overall more similar than if you compared two non-related residents of Beijing. So while there are some specific traits that are more likely among one group of people like sickle cell, that pales in regards to similarities. Where this matters in regard to the hot button issues of intelligence or athletic ability. There's no sound scientific evidence to prove that overall one race is more intelligent or athletic than another. While there are differences among subgroups, like Kenyans doing better in distance running, that has more to do with culture and local environment than racial genetics. Why do black Americans play basketball better than Asian Americans? Propably because most of them grew up in urban areas where basketball was played more widely. Jews used to dominate basketball because it was an urban games and Jews were stuck in an urban situation. Why are Asians considered smarter? Probably because most Asians are a self-selected group of immigrants most of whom have come here with the desire and skills to do better. Prior to the wave of Asian immigration in 1960's Asians were considered stupid, lazy and degenerate. The term "Chinese fire drill" meant that Chinese were so stupid that they would run out of one exit of a flaming building and run back into another entrance. 2. While its likely that slave owners tried to selectively breed slaves its been more than a 150 years since former slaves could breed how they wanted and anyway there was so much behind the scenes race mixing that most descendents of slaves have some white blood in them which under the theory of racial genetics here on Clutchfans should've weakened them. Blacks in America are on average bigger and stronger than blacks in Africa for the same reason that Sri Lankans who grew up in America are bigger and stronger than Sri Lankans in Sri Lanka better health care and nutrition. 3. As far as terms go as another poster noted "oriental" comes from how far "the Orient" was from Europe. Again its not inherently offensive but has taken on negative connotation and is as passe as the term 'negro'. As for the term "Asian" of the Asian groups I've been in include Indians, Persians and anyone else who's immediate ancestors came from east of the Ural Mountains and west of the International date line. As far as white Americans wanting to be called 'Euro-Americans' sure why not. Tomorrow you'll see a lot of people proudly proclaiming they're "Irish-Americans"
As far as being moving kids out to go to other schools, Non Hmong Asians are usually the ones going to poorer schools. An interesting note is that a white group(Armenians) have the second highest English learner population in LAUSD. I can't remember if Chinese or Koreans follow that, but it is one of those groups.
