No, I was upset at your ridiculous assertion/generalization that all evolutionists are staunch atheists - or that an atheist will by neccessity exhibit "anti-spiritual fundamentalism". You are certainly correct in that both "factions" have groups that think they are intellectually superior to the other. But your post was full of such egotism I have little reason not to assume you to be one of the aforementioned factions. From my recollection of numerous ID threads containing your posts I feel comfortable in replying: "Pot, meet kettle".
In response to part A, I made no such claim and you can easily look back and see for yourself. I specifically referred to certain evolutionists and certain groups of atheists. In response to part B, I backup the points I make. You can also check this. And if challenged on a point I do some additional research and I post links. It’s this most basic misrepresentation of what I have sad, even in this very thread, that irks me most but is also the most telling IMO about the position of some of the evolutionists in this “debate.” I guess you’re not even reading my posts before responding to them, which makes this all kind of pointless.
Madmax, you know personally by the way I can chunk down a taco that I am a fanatic Rocket fan just trying... We all have our ritual and rules and doctrine (religion?), but I think more importantly we share that special gift of grace and God's spirit that is unique and yet nothing to brag about at all- nada, -zero. I can let go of some religion, but I never ever want to lose grace. A humbling, precious, undeserving gift through faith. Don't go for Mexican food without me!
i actually think that knowing that you know god is arrogant. somebody once said that there is no there there. i believe them.
oh, i'm not looking for pity and i don't find the arrogance offensive when coming from reasonable people. but it is arrogant.
I feel like I am above centuries of history because I live in the present. Centuries of history has taught better ways of medicine than leeches or that the Earth isn't the center of the universe and that most of the mythology of past civilzations is just a compensation for the lack of knowledge. It would be impossible for either Atheist or Religionist to present a reasoned support for their position because the question exists outside the reference of human knowledge. Therefore only we agnostics represent the most reasonable opinion.
Triviality - the tonality was there, and it was elitist and offensive. "These are people who seem to feel they are above centuries of human history..." Sheesh. Just look at page 9 of the latest ID thread. Looks eerily familar to probably page 4326 of the previous ID thread. It's fine to disagree with me and believe in ID - but don't try to act all pious about it. No pun intended
Why does it seem to me that these rituals, rules, and doctrine are being more emphasized in churches? Why is ideology (homosexuality, abortion, ten commandment displays, p*rnography) being made more important than spirtuality? It's spiritual hijacking. I'm bitter here - I know.
I think I understand how you feel. Good points. When I say rituals etc I am referring to simple human habits. People have deep motives, they go to church for multitudes of reasons (even out of habit or custom), Christians take communion for instance out of deep meaning, or casual habit or several other rationales. There are moral beliefs and convictions that lead to rules of conduct such as being honest and not taking what belongs to others. (just examples) There are some rules like wear a suit and tie to church that can be founded more in habit and tradition than any loving motive. When the wrong things are emphasized sometimes it is harmless, often it is damaging. Most of what is really Christian depends on the motive inside the heart and obedience and faith. When someone dressed in t-shirt and dirty jeans comes into our church on Sunday I don't think WOW look how they're dressed, my thoughts are usually Hey that's a new visitor I want to meet them. Different doctrines are emphasized differently and thus there are many different denominations, sects etc. Doctrine is important especially if it results in practical application that reflects the way Jesus Christ wants a Christian to act. Can you see how a doctrine can just be etched in stone as a monument or it can be a living expression in someone's life? It is interesting in the Bible that Christians are called the body of Christ, and He is called the head of the body. In essence we are his hands, feet, heart, ears and voice.(If we are properly connected) It is easy to over emphasize something when you feel threatened or when you personally feel strongly about it. Just look at the big fusses between Dems and Rep, Libs and Conserv., RocketFan and MavFan. More human nature. But with Christianity who do you think is ultimately going to get misrepresented when there are abuses? Churches struggle to reflect God properly because we have trouble also with that religion and relationship issue. If I was to leave the church because I was disappointed and hurt by another Christian or a Leader I would have left long ago. Doctrine is the basic teachings of the Bible. They are important. But when lived out rightly they do not produce contradictions to who Jesus Christ is. How rightly are doctrines put in practice, look around and you get the picture. Does that negate Jesus or God or Christianity. No. But we Christians are not the best Bible you can read. Pick up a copy of a Bible and ask God to speak to you, read the New Testament and ask God to reveal Himself. The Bible is a reliable revelation of God. Hopefully we can better reflect that. Now the Ten Commandments, the ideology of homosexuality, abortion etc. all the visible point issues are important to God and to Christians, but not in the way they are often debated. Morals are important but does God's love tell me to picket an Aids clinic or go inside and wash the wounds of those dying. Think about it. I am opposed to the sin of homosexuality. Wait- don't tune me out yet, my response is to go inside, wipe the brows, wash the wounds and that is how God has shown me to live. I am against abortion, it is murder, but why do I weep with the mother who is confused, desparate and overwelmed to the point of getting an abortion. I don't think I have ever felt anger towards a mother who has an abortion. Does God's love move me to curse her for her sin or does it show me that I should not cast the first stone. My own heart breaks each time a baby is aborted (honest), yet it equally breaks for the mothers and realizes perhaps they just don't know what they do? Maybe some are callous and calculated and hateful about the whole thing but does that change their need for truth and mercy? God is the final judge anyway. I will never believe abortion is not murder (doctrine?) but I just can't throw any stones, I beg that abortion would go away and every mother and every baby would grow happy as God designed. I can't expain this issue except to say I literally shed tears over it. God is real, God is trustworthy and righteous in all He is and does, God loves you. Those are profound statements and they are in no way meant to be arrogant or self serving. I have been often embittered as a Christian. I certainly understand your feelings of bitterness. Who of us Christians hasn't acted like a know it all and self righteous at some point or betrayed Jesus by word or deed? How much of the suffering in the world is because of man's own choices and how much of those choices and sufferings also grieve God? God gives us a powerful gift- choices. But with out a relationship with the giver of that gift choices can do alot of damage. Should God stop the madness? I suppose when He can no longer be heard by anyone He will.
See the long previous post for ref.- "My own heart breaks each time a baby is aborted (honest), " That is a total exaggeration. Sorry, I should have said, when I think about a baby being aborted is hurts me and often my heart is very saddened. Now I feel better about saying - honestly.
"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both natural and spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity" ~Einstein
You forgot the best part. Grizzled: Your comment was about atheists promoting Evolution is way off base. Many and most of the best debaters in the ID/Evo threads are not atheists nor do they support their claims with their beliefs. They support their claims with facts.
