Ok if you want to dismiss the 37 terrorist attacks then there is nothing I can do that's your choice. But what about all the other charts that show the increase and are clearly statistically significant?
Lou, we've been over all this I think. I went through that Vox article you cited and discussed every single statistic they cited. I don't think we need to rehash anything else. If you'd like to ask my opinion on things I said there I'd be happy to answer.
Dude you asked me for data and I shared A TON and then you ignored it. I took the time today to put it in a post at least you can read it. There were 5 or 6 charts in that post and you only reference one.
Ok, I forgot your link was fixed I'll go look at it. Edit - Lou what do you want me to take away from this data and respond to exactly?
But it's not really a problem we need to worry about because out of the 200 million or so white folks that is a really low percentage...
Look I am a minority. I have lived with racial comments and I grew up in the South. I know a lot of people judge me based on my race - both liberals and conservatives. But it's the far right anti-immigrant people that are scary to us. Believe me we encountered more than a few growing up. Yes we had neighbors who were great - Republicans who were our friends and all. Conservatives. We ate dinner with them, watched the Superbowl with then, supported each other. Great people. But there were also a lot of people who didn't care for us. We had swastikas painted on the side of our house once for instance. Or people would say names to my mom - not kids -but adults. It wasn't just a "few bad seeds". And I'm telling you it's on the rise. It's actually worrisome for many minorities what is going on - and Trump's rhetoric is embolding people. I never have seen so many people complaining about white persecution or how racism isn't real anymore but a tool to divert attention than I have the last few years. white nationalism is on the rise, and Trump champions it in his ways. People on here want to attack me as "race baiting" and all that. But it's real. And history has born it out that it's real over and over and over again. It shouldn't be that big of a shock that someone like Trump would play to nationalistic tendencies to gain influence and support. It's a playbook repeated through out the world and history. Nearly every right wing party in the world is anti-immigrant and espouses the same talking points as trump. Not just a conservative party, but extreme right-wing parties in Europe and Oceania. So I ask you, do you back this stuff? Because if you do, I see you as hostile to my existence in this country.
Trauma. Explains your crusade with race politics, and I am sorry you had to experience that bud. We disagree on politics a lot, but I truly empathize.
Not really traumatic, but definitely disturbing. And things like this happen multiple times. I'm not on a crusade, I'm just telling you the reality. Unless you talk to minorities or stand in their shoes, you do not know the kind of bigotry people face. Hate is far more common than you think.
Yes, Jussie Smollett has now proven that all racially motivated violence against minorities is fake and a false flag.
When the guys who disagree with this thread dig into the numbers it becomes clear this is overblown In another thread i showed the reason hate crime numbers are up is because 1,000 additional agencies are reporting them that had not been The increase in incidents reported is about1,000
Again, when you have major news networks pushing out white supremacists propaganda it's not at all overblown. As for your additional agencies, just going by what the FBI reports.
There isnt a rash of hate crimes since Trump was elected The fbi gets its info from local law enforcement
From the outside looking in . . . if the concern is the increase in "white nationalism" incidents over the past 3-4 years, then the concern should extend to an increase in "black nationalism" incidents as well, no? one of the sources Jay cites says murders attributed to black nationalists jumped from zero to several in 2016 and (I believe) four more in 2017. On a pure percentage basis, that increase from zero to several is "infinity." Only being partly facetious here. But even the SPLC says black nationalism is on the rise since the year 2000. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2017/return-violent-black-nationalist I take it some posters here are trying to make (primarily) arguments about statistical significance, while other posters are trying to make (primarily) arguments about political significance--with the result being both are talking right past each other. Is there a way of meeting in the middle and agreeing upon more similar terminology so that a more charitable and productive conversation can take place?
I think racial pride takes on a different aspect when your race is in the seat of power than when it isn't. Being in power (which often comes from being in the majority) has an effect like cultural imperialism. And racial groups out of power can feel that encroachment, that the way they talk, what they eat, their music, the way they organize and work, all facets of their culture are challenged and supplanted by that of the empowered. A pride movement in this circumstance is a form of cultural defense. Its a deliberate effort to protect your cultural markers from erosion. And, this pride movement can work because, as a minority, you can define a cohesive group; and being under cultural attack, you can have a uniting purpose. But, when you're in power your culture isn't being eroded. You can still have your cuisine, your dance, your literature, your values. You can appropriate things from other cultures if you want, but you don't have to. So a pride movement in this circumstance means something else. I think it actually means one of two things. One, it may mean that though your culture is safe, you don't want to co-exist with other cultures but to increase their conquest. Or two, your culture is being eroded but not on the basis of race. Which is what I see happening in America. There are some people who feel like their traditional white American culture is being swallowed up by diversity. The defensive instinct is to preserve the culture. But, they want to define the cultural pride as 'white.' But 'white' is not a cohesive group with a uniting purpose. There are lots and lots of white people who do not at all recognize or identify with this white culture that other white people are trying to preserve. If it is small town or rural life, for example, define it that way. If its a Protestant movement, define it that way. But culturally, 'white' has no uniting thread.
Agreed on political significance vs statistical. That being said Trump may have questionable rhetoric and thats the subject of the thread. He maybe catering to voter. I wont defend that other than statistically there is no reason to make an issue of it. As bad as the optics of Charlottesville were, the turmoil was specific to those confederate statutes
You are correct about many things, but to say a pride movement is about defense? You are saying anyone who is white and has pride is being defensive and wrong. That is not the case. This idealogy makes people feel guilty about being white (and having pride). Why make shame ok, but pride an issue? The groups with the most extreme pride are the ones who take over. That is the secret in every society. It becomes an issue when they only let their group in once they have all the power and hold all of the top positions.
