shame on you hp. you should know they are too busy teaching them pg duties to conentrate on a post-up game. the taller you are the greater your chances of not having your 3pointer blocked.
Because they look to American muscle to look after their interests abroad, just like in foreign policy.
They do, and there are a few prospects along those lines, most around the age of 16. However, most of the true post players in Europe are NBA retreads. I imagine their line of thinking is that "well, once we teach them all of the fundamentals to succeed here, they can learn the post game on the fly in the NBA. In the meantime, we'll use their scrubs on our teams in the low post and hope that they dominate."
Interesting question HP I think the recent trend in the Europe is to teach their juniors no matter their size a perimeter- jump shooting type of game where the closest they get taught to post play is turn around jumper. Which probably takes advantage of their body types as a lot of these tall shooting forwards from Europe Dirk and Pau as examples don't carry enough bulk to bang with the big bodies in the paint in the NBA. really tough to think of any isn't it the closest i could come to one is that Rebreka guy for detroit, he definetely plays the classical PF spot type of game. maybe it also relates to the type of game they play, the NBA really has turned to a post player being the PF and moved away from the centre doing, whereas is Europe the centre still plays the paint on offense, which you could then probably ask why aren't there more Euro centres.... so really i can;t think of more of an answer than my first paragraph.
hmmm, interesting observation Smeggy. Makes me rethink how we train our SGs here. I think the recent trend in the State is to teach our juniors no matter their size to jump, dribble and play D where the closest they get taught to midrange play is turn around jumper. Which probably takes advantage of their body types as a lot of these tall shooting guards from the States (Kobe, Tracy, J Richardson and Lebron as examples) carry a lot of bulk, speed and leaping to bang, run around, jump over, and shut-down the small, slow bodies playing SG in Europe like Dejan Bodiroga.
They dont eat in Europe, how can you be a Pf when you are 6"10 220. Seriously though, I dont think the muscle toning process which causes weight gain, occurs until the NBA. Finally, everyone looks at Nowitzki, and thinks the only way to get into the NBA and be good is to play like him.
interesting reply HeyP not sure if there is enough emphasis on catch and shoot from the perimeter. Everytime i see Tracey play he always has to have a dribble even is his feet move 1 ince before he shoots the J and the 3 really isn't there yet, Kobe is better off the dribble than catch and shoot, Richardson wants to drive first.
heypartner, The differences in court layout and zone rules have no impact on low post play? How would Shaq fair playing on a <i>Euro</i> court with <i>Euro</i> refs? Mango
It is a very interesting question, but let me throw my two cents in. I think part of the reason there's such a lack of post players in the Euro leagues may come from the time when their leagues finally took off in popularity and skill. Now most of this is still based a lot off assumption so take it with a grain of salt. In the US, the development of basketball has always been outside in since the beginning. Especially before the 3pt line was introduced. So traditionally we have a large foundation in developing a post game based on the evolution of our style of game. Slowly but surely, with the advent of the 3pt line, and taller/quicker players basketball's become more perimeter oriented. Maybe in part due to the fact that the post game is a much bigger factor in the College game and the foundation of those skills gets put in place there rather than in the NBA. And with the draft and size being at a premium we're curbing the development of our post players. But I digress.... I'm assuming that the massive upswing of popularity and influx of talent into the Euro leagues came sometime durring the Magic/Bird/Jordan era. All of them tall Guard/Forwards who played a complete game mainly face to the basket. With those types of players to emulate and the type of game being played in the NBA at the time. I can see where European coaches who are looking to develop their players into NBA prospects would work on the fundamentals that Jordan or Magic or Bird showed on a consistant basis, while letting the post game slide. It was clearly the way the NBA was evolving as a league becoming even more perimeter oriented. I think there are no real low post greats in Europe because they elevated their game and development, when Basketball strategy was evolving in part away from the primary offensive option being the post player. Consequently they haven't focused on it, while our history with that aspect of the game keeps us developing those types of players. Let me know what you think this is all just some opinion and educated guesses
There might be some truth to it. Euro diet is very different from American. Cheeseburger and fries make you fat.
Zone rules have never prevented the teaching of low post fundamentals in the US. But if you are correct about the court layout, then they artificially create perimeter/slashing games. So why do we call them more fundamentally sound for a rules difference that takes the most basic of fundamentals out of the game...the low post game? So they don't teach low post games and emphasize what the rules give them by stressing shooting and driving and it is called "Fundamental basketball the way it's meant to be played," yet the NBA stresses low post games and driving to emphasize what the rules give us, and it is called "lack of fundamentals" and "flashy" "selfish" "not the way the game's meant to be played."
Shaq is a pure low post player. I'd say he has the worst fundamentals among the superstars, past and present. He has improved in the past couple of years. But even before that, he was considered one of the most dominant low post players in NBA history. I don't agree with the statement "the low post game is the most basic of the fundamentals." Strength is as much a part of the inside game as fundamental skills. Being bulky and physical is still not a virtue in European basketball. IMO, it has nothing to do with fundamentals.
True but think about all the good to great low post threats in the NBA so far.... How many of those players played a signifigant time in a US college? How many learned at least a signifigant portion of those talents in collegiate ball? How many great low post players didn't play college ball? While I'm no NBA expert I can't think of many good low post players that didn't play a while in one college or another. And I can't think of a large number of good low post players that have developed into those talents simply from being in the NBA. Maybe I'm wrong and I'd be interested to see someone to talk about it in the other direction.
Despite your attempt at trying to think of a true PF from Europe, the fact remains: all the true PFs in the NBA come through the colleges or leap right from HS. None have come from Europe to date. That observation allows the claim that low post fundamentals and the power game are taught in the states, not Europe. Europe appears devoid of the training it takes to develop true PFs and a power game. Yet, the media hypes how fundamentals is lacking in the states and we don't play the game the way it is meant to be played. Do you believe we are lacking fundamentals in the States, if all the low post players are developed here?? btw: where are the PGs and SGs from Europe, as well. Shouldn't there be more than Jesus Parker aka Avery Johnson.
will someone please explain what Pau Gasol is? He has a great inside game and he is pretty tall. Before you say no pf's come out of Europe, I would look at him. He has a chance to become one of the best pf's in the game.
