Cy Young Awards ---------------------- N. Ryan: 0 R. Clemens: 6 Career ERA ----------------- Ryan 3.19 Clemens 3.19 career Win% ------------------- Ryan .526 (324-292) Clemens .660 (310-160) Career WHIP ----------------- Ryan 1.25 Clemens 1.18 Career K/BB ---------------- Ryan 1.99 Clemens 2.86 I Love N.Ryan and all, but Clemens is the better pitcher.
Look up the difference in the run support Clemens had and then look at how many runs were scored by Nolan's team when he pitched. Ryan pitched for some woeful Angels teams.
Even taking away the win numbers, Clemens has an edge of 6 Cy Youngs, a better whip, and a significantly better k/bb ratio. If they were both in their primes and I had to pick one to win an important game, I'd probably pick Clemens.
You left out some stats, flamingmoe. Career Wins Nolan Ryan: 324 Roger Clemens: 310 Strikeouts Ryan: 5714 Clemens: 4099 Shutouts: Ryan: 61 Clemens: 46 Complete Games Ryan: 222 Clemens: 117 Innings Pitched (for durability purposes) Ryan: 5387.0 Clemens: 4278.2 Years Pitched Ryan: 27 (!!!) Clemens: 20 No-Hitters Ryan: 7 Clemens: 0 Now, I'm not saying Ryan is the better pitcher, but I thought I'd share some omitted stats (yes, that admittedly make Ryan look good ). Personally, I think it's neck and neck between the two. However, if you add in personality and charm, Ryan gets the edge here (because Clemens is... well... a prick, from what I hear).
It took Ryan 7 more seasons to get 14 more wins. On a per season basis, Ryan gets a few more stikeouts, but fewer shutouts. Basically, Ryan's numbers are inflated by pitching for sooooo long. Clemens is better IMHO.
Yes those states do make Ryan look good, because he is good Yes Ryan played for some offessive weaklings. That is why I used WHIP and K/BB. Clemens keeps more batters off base and is the more efficient strikeout pitcher. But you are right, they are very both HOF pitchers and both redefined the art of the strikeout. I would gladly have either one pitching for my team during their prime. And we are going to have one of them as our starting day pitcher!
Clemens was better, barely. Look at his ERA in comparison to the rest of the league and compare it to Nolan's. Nolan was a stout pitcher, and a strikeout KING. But he gave up a ton of walks. When he was on, he was great - the seven no-hitters speak to that - but he also threw a ton of walks.
If I were chosen to choose either Ryan or Clemons for their whole careers, I'd go with Clemons. Ryan was just too unreliable for my taste. When he's on, he's absolutely unhittable, as evidenced by all his no-hitters and one-hitters. But he's prone to wildness much more than Clemons. Also, Clemons pitched in hitters parks like Fenway and Skydome, while Ryan spent quite a while in the spacious Astrodome. Take away the park factor, and I'd say Clemons' performance was more impressive. However, I wouldn't count Ryan's bad win-loss record against him though. He had terrible run-support in his career. There was one year where he had the league's best ERA... and ended up with I believe a 9-14 record.
Clemens is in the top 5 all-time...maybe top3...he was a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan. That's not to criticize Nolan...he was unbelievable, too.
Ryan could never win in the post season (Mike Scott did both). Like the Killer B's. Great during the regular season but not a money player in post when it counts.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ryanno01.shtml Nolan's career postseason numbers: G ERA W-L SV CG IP H ER BB SO 9 3.07 2-2 1 1 58.7 39 20 14 63 Maybe not eye-popping, but not the numbers of the choke-artist you're trying to paint.
There was an article on ESPN about how Nolan Ryan is one of the most overrated players of all time. the BB/K ratio is controlled by the player not the team. While I agree he would have been better on a better team. He's not the best of all time as some people think.
what does run support have to do with their accomplishments as pitchers? it helps to explain all of ryan's losses (nearly double clemens' total), but a lack of it certainly doesn't mean he's a better pitcher. besides, ryan pitched in a dead ball era; never having to face juiced-up sluggers in tiny stadiums when 50 HRs was considered ho-hum. look at his career ERA vs. the league ERA: 3.19/3.57. he wasn't appreciably better than his peers in that respect. and don't forget, he enjoyed 9 years in one of the greatest pitcher's parks of all-time. clemens spent all but, what? three years in hitter-friendly fenway and yankee stadium. and his career ERA is nearly a run and a half better than the league average - 3.19/4.48.
Ryan's career era+ (which is era relative to the rest of the league factoring out park effects. 100 is the league average) is 112. Clemen's 140. Ryan might have been a more exciting pitcher to watch, but he wasn't a better pitcher.
Nolan Ryan: Career Leader lowest average hits per nine innings (6.55) opponents batting average (.203) Roger Clemens: opponents batting average (.231) hits per 9 innings (7.73) Complete games: Nolan Ryan-222 Roger Clemens-117 All that tells me is that Clemens pitched in an era where good pitchers were few and far between.
