I don't recall ever hearing about this before ~ I wonder if there is any truth to the rumors... However, the 'evidence' in this new book seems to be a lot of hearsay and conjecture in an obvious attempt to create some controversy. ($) _____________________________ Scholars have long debated Lincoln's sexuality, and as early as the 1920s were making veiled references to his relationship with Speed. However, critics say that in the pioneer days men sleeping together in rough circumstances was not uncommon. A Republican hero, but was Abe Lincoln gay? It is news guaranteed to make many Republicans squirm. Was Abraham Lincoln, founder of the party now seeking a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage in America, actually gay himself? A new book, published next month, certainly thinks so. The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln by C.A. Tripp produces evidence that one of America's greatest Presidents had a long-term relationship with a youthful friend, Joshua Speed, and shared his bed with David Derickson, captain of his bodyguards. Tripp, a former researcher for sex scientist Alfred Kinsey and an influential gay writer, includes asides by many of Lincoln's close friends. 'He was not very fond of girls, as he seemed to me,' his stepmother, Sarah Bush Lincoln, once told a friend. It also includes a diary excerpt by one upper-class Washington woman who wrote of Derickson: 'There is a Bucktail soldier here devoted to the President, drives with him, and when Mrs L is not home, sleeps with him. What stuff!' Scholars have long debated Lincoln's sexuality, and as early as the 1920s were making veiled references to his relationship with Speed. However, critics say that in the pioneer days men sleeping together in rough circumstances was not uncommon. Now Tripp has discovered letters between Lincoln and Speed which supposedly betray a deep intimacy. But Tripp's book really breaks new ground in its exhaustive portrayal of many of Lincoln's possible gay lovers, including one man who said Lincoln's thighs 'were as perfect as a human being could be' 'Make no mistake - Abe Lincoln was gay,' said Professor Scott Thompson, from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts. But David Donald, a Harvard professor and respected Lincoln biographer, has disputed Tripp's findings in his own book, We Are Lincoln Men, published last year, and says there is no definitive proof of Lincoln having affairs with any men. link
I heard something about this last night. I don't really care one way or the other if he was gay or straight, unless it might cause some people to be more accepting of homosexuals.
Revisionist history is fun! I mean, the first line, Lincoln, Founder of the Republican Party... Huh? What? Crap.
How many times are you gullible liberals going to post links to the Guardian? Their credibility is precisely zero. Thanks for trying, though. SerfCheetah, I especially like how you do not mention the source in your post. *snicker* exposed.
He posted the link. Maybe you should get together with Trader_J, someone who does this sort of thing much better than you, about the consistency of posting links to quoted articles and columns. And what's with the name calling? You have a problem with cats? Keep D&D Civil!!
Many news outlets feature this story ~ I see you have yet to master google. Abe Lincoln slept here . . .was he gay? The St. Louis Post-Dispatch, MO - Jan 4, 2005 ... Finding the truth is a sacred principal for historians, Chesson said. Still, if Lincoln was gay, how did it affect his presidency? ... Honest, Abe? The Weekly Standard, DC - Jan 7, 2005 ... But the attempt to use this "Gay Lincoln Theory," making the sixteenth president an icon for modern homosexuals, is now poised to make its biggest push--led by ... ABE: HONEST & STRAIGHT New York Post, NY - Dec 26, 2004 ... And he insists that the case is beyond dispute: Lincoln was gay, he writes, naming several alleged lovers. But the evidence is not just slim, it's nonexistent. ... Will a new portrait of Abe Lincoln gain currency? News & Observer, NC - Dec 18, 2004 ... to wonder whether Abe was gay. The New York Times story on Tripp's book quoted Carl Sandburg, in the original preface to his acclaimed 1926 Lincoln biography ... The posting of this article was purely for discussion of an out of the ordinary news item ~ the fact that it touches such a personal nerve with you bigtexxx is interesting. The source is clearly linked at the bottom of the article ~ here it is again since you missed it the first time - link That's Surf Cheetah instigator. TKO
Just don't pst any articles by Krauthammer or from the American Spectator or the Heritage Foundation. I can see why you pay no attention to The Guardian, as it is not subsidized or censored by corporate America. Am I sounding like a liberal? Good. As far as Abe Lincoln being straight or gay, the fact that someone wasted time in writing a book on the subject is amazing. Who. Gives. A. S**t?
Texxx, your failure to comprehend that this was a book review and subsequent Royal Cheetownage made me chortle, for the record.
Sham, my post was to highlight the folly of continuing to post links to the Guardian. I do not read any of those links, including this one. SerfCheetah's later post wasn't even relevant. I am glad however that I was responsible for him wasting time in photoshop. For that I enjoyed a hearty belly-laugh.
More than one person has done so. It is not wasted time, it is exploration. The answer will never be known for sure and doesn't really matter, but it interests people, anyway (and, of course, some have agendas). All that we know is that there are some suggestions of homosexual activity and/or sentiments in both his own writings and the writings of others. At the least, it is an exploration of human sexuality in the early - mid 19th century US. At the least, it is interesting for people to find a poem, for example, about homosexuality written by a mythical political figure at a time when "gay" and "homosexual" did not exist in the public consciousness: "I will tell you a Joke about Jewel and Mary It is neither a Joke nor a Story For Rubin and Charles has married two girls But Billy has married a boy The girlies he had tried on every Side But none could he get to agree All was in vain he went home again And since that is married to Natty So Billy and Natty agreed very well And mama's well pleased at the match The egg it is laid but Natty's afraid The Shell is So Soft that it never will hatch But Betsy she said you Cursed bald head My Suitor you never Can be Beside your low crotch proclaims you a botch And that never Can serve for me"
This entire story is shaping up like the whole business of Thomas Jefferson having fathered children with his slave Sally Hemings. At first many will do anything to dismiss the charges because they feel those interested in understanding history are actually trying to slurry the name of a respected figure. They will refuse to even acknowledge the possibility and if practical they hide the truth ~ so why does the possibility of Lincoln being gay bother some people so badly? _______________________________ Honest, Abe? THE NOTION that Abraham Lincoln had homosexual experiences is hardly new. All the way back in 1924, Carl Sandburg's bestselling biography winked at Lincoln's "streak of lavender and spots soft as May violets." And more explicit versions of the idea have appeared in the years since--as signaled by "Log Cabin Republicans," the name chosen by gay members of the GOP for their advocacy group. The topic of Lincoln's sexuality keeps reappearing because the available evidence is so tantalizing: a jokey poem he wrote in his youth about a boy marrying a boy, a four-year sleeping arrangement with adored friend Joshua Speed, a marriage sometimes said to be reluctant and less than amorous, a lifelong preference for male company, a documented claim that he shared a bed in the summer White House with his soldier-bodyguard in 1862, and a number of other suggestive items. Unfortunately, that is merely a way of saying the Gay Lincoln Theory fails any historical test. "Useful history" is always a dubious kind of scholarship. But in its attempt to be useful for gays today, The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln reaches far beyond the merely dubious. The book is a hoax and a fraud: a historical hoax, because the inaccurate parts are all shaded toward a predetermined conclusion, and a literary fraud, because significant portions of the accurate parts are plagiarized--from me, as it happens. full article
He may not have been gay, but I his first real job as a young man was in carnivals. Since he was such a large man for his time...rumors have persisted that "Honest" Abe Lincoln was a professional wrestler at the carnivals.
This is so unecessary - the story was run in several other publications, including the conservative leaning NY Post and Weekly Standard. But that shouldn't even matter b/c the Guardian is a perfectly legit paper in any case. Instead of discussing or refuting or addressing anything in the actual story, you [wrongly] accuse the poster of failing to provide a link and then call him names. It should have already been apparent after all the months of bickering in this forum that people here are tired of reading this kind of crap. If Lincoln's sexual preference bothers you so much then go find some other way to deal with it besides polluting this forum.
