VSPAN could barely contain himself on the Bench !!

And notice that everybody in the tournament was under 21 years old. That is a lot of talent out there if they could knock off the U.S. team. The tidal wave of Euros coming to the NBA may only be starting.

 

Doubtful, the USA U18 team destroyed everybody in qualifying for the WC's recently - nobody got within 20 points, including ARG and BRA

The reason why the USA U21 team doesn't win?

Because the best 18-20 year old players in the US are in the NBA and don't play on it.

 

Better for playing in the NBA??? So are you saying the next crop of highly touted high school prep players should go to europe league for the next few years instead of playing at a top rank college, if thier goal is to make it to the NBA? Or are you saying teams should now draft euro-league players before they draft college players since as you say 4 years professional league is BETTER than college ball for the NBA.

 

Then how do you explain this?


1995 USA Men's Junior World Championship Team Roster



NAME POS HGT WGT AGE SCHOOL HOMETOWN
Vince Carter F 6-6 195 18 Mainland High School Daytona Beach, FL
Taymon Domzalski C 6-10 245 18 New Mexico Military Institute Rosewell, NM
Tremaine Fowlkes F 6-7 215 19 University of California Los Angeles, CA
Trajan Langdon G 6-4 185 19 Duke University Anchorage, AK
Mike Maddox F 6-8 222 19 Georgia Tech Atlanta, GA
Stephon Marbury G 6-1 180 18 Lincoln High School Brooklyn, NY
Charlie Miller F 6-7 200 18 Indiana University Miami, FL
Mark Sanford F 6-8 200 19 University of Washington Dallas, TX
Samaki Walker C 6-9 220 19 University of Louisville Columbus, OH
Jahidi White C 6-9 270 19 Georgetown University St. Louis, MO
Steve Wojciechowski G 5-11 165 18 Duke University Severna Park, MD
Tim Young C 7-1 240 19 Stanford University Santa Cruz, CA


1995 USA RESULTS (4-4)
Australia 71 USA 69
USA 61 Jordan 51
USA 75 Italy 61
USA 65 France 62
Greece 98 USA 78
Croatia 82 USA 65
Argentina 67 USA 58
USA 92 France 55

1995 JUNIOR WORLD CHAMP. FINAL STANDINGS
1. Greece (8-0)
2. Australia (7-1)
3. Spain (5-3)
4. Croatia (4-4)
5. Lithuania (6-2)
6. Argentina (3-5)
7. USA (4-4)
8. France (3-5)
9. China (4-4)
10. Puerto Rico (5-3)
11. Nigeria (3-5)
12. Venezuela (3-5)
13. Italy (5-3)
14. Angola (1-7)
15. S. Korea (1-7)
16. Jordan (0-8)

 

I would think that the real reason lies in the answer to another question;

That question being, why can't Team USA win a world championship anymore?

 

Uhh, the best two players on that team were Marbury & Carter - who had not even played a college game yet, they were fresh out of high school, assembled to play in one crappy tournament. The rest are all true freshman.

Most of those guys didn't even make it in the NBA (though some went on to become stars in Europe after failing to cut it in the US).

Look, you didn't follow college basketball back then; Let me show you what the REAL college all stars that year looked like:
Consensus All Americans, First Team:

Ed O'Bannon, UCLA
Shawn Respert, Michigan St.
Joe Smith, Maryland
Damon Stoudamire, Arizona
Jerry Stackhouse, North Carolina

Second Team
Randolph Childress, Wake Fprest
Kerry Kittle, Villanova
Lou Roe, UMass
Rasheed Wallace, North Carolina
Corliss Williamson, Arkansas

...and that does not include guys currently in college at that point like Tim Duncan, Theo Ratleff, Antonio McDyess, Bob Sura, Kurth Thomas, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson...etc; there are plenty of NBA all stars who didn't even make that list.

But not a single one of them bothered to show up for the U21 team.

 

No, the real answer is the one that I gave. The US U21 team in 2005 was a second rate squad, composed of second choice players. The best qualifying players (Carmelo Anthony, CHris Bosh, Dwight Howard, LeBron James) were busy doing something else. Actually you can say the same thing about the 1995 US U21 team: B-rate players, the best of whom were high schoolers.

The other question is for discussion in another forum, on another day.

 

So are you saying the players on Greece Austrailia and spain were more ready & better players to contribute to THE NBA than Vince Carter and stephon Marubury?

 

Remember - this is the HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR versions of Vince and Marbury that we're talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if the guys on there MIGHT have been more NBA ready. He's arguing that they're more "NBA Ready" than the best collegians: guys like Damon Stoudamire (rookie of the year that year) or Rasheed Wallace or Jerry Stackhouse.

That 1995 U21 team was a B-team, at best. High schoolers & True Frosh.

I'm talking about actual NCAA play in the early-mid 90's - the level of competition was as close to the NBA as possible without being in it.

 

Man, this thread has my intellectual light-weight head spinning.

Seems like SFisher and Dakota are just hard for each other.

I think most of us really don't care all that much about the Cassell-Spanoullis comparisons or the ACC vs pro Euros.

Some new comers to the team just have a novelty factor...or we are just curious about them, and we just want to know how they will perform if given a chance.

And JVG just doesn't seem to like to give anyone a chance unless he is forced to.

I don't think it would be the death of anyone here, or, in fact, the death of the Rockets team if we found out sooner rather than later just exactly how much potential that Span (and Novak) have or don't have. I know that I could live with the disappointment of acknowledging that even both of them aren't NBA material.

Rocket fans have lived through lots of recent disapointments (Griffin, Boki, the Gayest trade ever,...aw, the list is just too painful).

Like Tom Petty said, "the waiting is the hardest part".

It seems normal to be curious. JVG isn't normal.

 

While I like to find out about the unkowns as much as the next person... I find it eazier to understand why a Nachbar or a Reece Gains or a Head or a Novak or a V-Span dont get regular minutes when I realize that in most basketball programs, the coaches usually determine a set rotation (pecking order in terms of minutes played) first and foremost in practices and then in games. Once a rotation is formed, the players in it are fighting to keep their spots while others are trying to get into it.

Now I dont know if JVG hates rookies or Euro's or white guys or what... so I'm incline to believe that he like the vast majority of coaches are determining their rotation from the results of practice, games and injuries. Thus I think V-span or Novak will get minutes if they beat out their counterpart in practice (like how Head beat out Moochie Norris early last year) or in the case of injuries.

 

Exactly! That certainly is the way the system is supposed to work.

I think that a lot of Rocket's fan expectations go through the roof all to easily. Why? All of the recent disappointments for one thing.

Again, as Tom Petty said, "even the losers get lucky sometimes". We do want someone to pan out.

With Spanoullis, it is easy to see why we want to know. That is why this thread is so long already. He is intriguing.

And Novak has been hyped by T-Mac himself as a great shooter. And we all like seeing a 3 pt shot hit nuttin-but-net. We have seen it, so we know what the potential is.

Bottom line: For better or worse, our curiousity is far greater than our trust of JVG.

 

Look, you don't know me so please don't make assumptions.

I'm very familiar with the Rasheed/Stackhouse/Carter/Jameson NC team, the Hurley/Hill/Laettner Duke teams, the Fab 5 of Michigan, (although I am a Big East guy and I more closely followed guys like Ray Allen at Nova, UConn's Donyell Marshall, GTs Marbury/Harpring and St. John's Felipe Lopez and Ron Artest teams)

I realize that the NCAA (and ACC in particular) enjoyed a very high level of play in the 90s.
Still doesn't change the fact that someone who has succeeded as a pro in europe is more ready to contribute than a collegiate from that era DESPITE being less talented.

BTW, how familiar are you with the powerhouse euro teams of the 90s?

 

No that is not what I'm saying.

 

IMO all college players on bigtime winning programs in the NCAA have some level of concept of team basketball and basketball smarts, but what separates them from eachother (and is their main criteria for selection to the NBA) is their physical skills.
Once in the NBA, these guys aren't as physically superior to their peers. What separates them from that point on is their basketball IQ (court awareness and team basketball fundamentals and especially perimeter defense) moreso than speed and athleticism.

Many of their Euro counterparts, while not nearly as gifted physically, have already elevated their game fundamentally as pros. They have already broken the barrier that separates a bust lottery pick from a contributor on an NBA team.
Since these qualities have been undervalued for years by NBA teams (much like OBP skills in baseball a decade ago) there is going to be an increase in the amount of successfull players to transition from Europe.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I respect your opinion but the reality is their is no right and wrong when debating hypothetical scenarios.

If I were running the Rox, I would rather try and convince Span to convince his Greece/Panathinaikos teammate Diamantidis to come over and play more than I would want the first pick in next year's draft.
That guy would be an instant all star.

 

You would take a 26 year old point guard who can't shoot over a 19 year old Greg Oden? Uh...yeah...you would be a bad GM.

 

No. Sam is just bitter and temporarily feels better when he condescends.

DaDakota has a life and I don't think he cares much about what Sam might say.

 

And Cohen doesn't so he tries to dogpile on from the sidelines whenever possible and goes around challenging people on the internet to fights.

 

Well, I'm sorry, but if you thought those guys on the 1995 U21 team were representative of the top of the college basketball food chain at the time...it doesn't do much for your credibility.

So....if you are familiar (Georgia Tech is in the ACC, by the way, not the Big East) with it....then I have a hard time understanding why would you say that:

A four year starter, who for two years, excelled at the absolute highest level at college basketball during its peak era, in a league loaded with future NBA players, on a team loaded with NBA starters, who played in offseason informal summer leagues with actual NBA players, and who demonstrated uncommon maturity at the time.........is LESS well equipped to enter the NBA and make an immediate impact than:

A European who has never been exposed to the American game, who plays only with Europeans, and who played a few years in the Greek leagues, and only one year with a high level Euroleague, and who only achieved only a moderate level of success there and was drafted as a second round pick.....?

I find that highly unlikely. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I simply don't find yours very credible - not the least of which because I don't think you recall enough about Sam Cassell in college. He wasn't some second round project who had to develop further and learn the system - he was a proven guy coming out of college.

Why is Adam Morrison playing and Andreas Bargnani riding the bench?

Why is Darko Milicic never able to get PT?

How come there has only been one European Rookie of the Year over the last 10 years?

Barely...but did Vasilis Spanoulis play for them? No, he didn't....so why are they entering this discussion? This has nothing to do with the fact that Sam Cassell's NCAA pedigree was as NBA ready as it gets, whatever that means.