Or if he does, it'll be too hand the ball off. "I'm benching you if you cross the scrimmage line again. Hand it to Selvin." Would be hilarious if Nordgren is the first guy off the bench next week.
IMO Young is not ready to be the starter yet. He was running against a worn out 2nd string bottom tier New Mexico St. team that had already packed its bags. Don't get me wrong I still think what he did was impressive for a first game but people calling for Mock to be benched need to be realistic. Young is still raw. The worst thing Mack Brown could do is start Young and have him struggle.
Amazing, Spectacular, Awesome. This is how I describe Vince Young's debut last night. Sorry Chance but the future is now. Young can make Davis look like a genius with his athleticism, and we have to find a way to use him and Selvin in multiple ways vs OU. I was at last night's game, and that first quarter was brutal. Greg Davis was calling some of the dumbest plays I'd ever seen, but Selvin Young got us rolling with that badass kickoff return. I'm still in awe of what Vince can do. He should start soon in my opinion, just because of his sheer athleticism. But if Chance starts I'm not unhappy. It's not controversy time yet. However that said, Young is the man. He is really similar to Mike Vick when he came into college, and that's saying something. He made the game look really easy last night. Yes it was a blowout and 2nd string defense, but you can't teach his overall athleticism. BTW, memo to Greg Davis, we have arguably the best receiving corp in the nation: run some wr streaks, play action posts, and hitch's and go's please. And if the defense overloads one side, audible the run to the opposite side or at least don't compound the problem by running a toss play. Finally, awesome defensive line play last night, except for the one drive at the end of the 1st quarter/early 2nd, but wright, thornton, pickyrl and tubbs were consistently getting heat up front. And kickass special teams too, as Vasher had a 60 yard return called back on a weak roy williams running into the kicker penalty. It's early but for the most part I liked what I saw, especially on defense/special teams. Hook em'.
I know what you are saying but I just don't think the cautious approach will get you by OU. Simms couldn't move the ball in 2 years against them, I don't see Moch, another more or less drop back passer have success against them unless he is the 2nd coming of Dan Marino (or at least Ty Detmer--a brainiac with a quick release for college FB). Those that say Moch can run and is athletic--well a number of times I saw NMS guys catch him in the 1st half, no chance for him to run away with OU's DL and LBs. I am OK with giving Moch the starting nod, but if the offense takes a couple 3 and outs and the D is losing ground against OU--don't wait before giving VY a chance. What would not be a smart way to handle VY is waiting until OU can really tee off and ignore the run before putting him in (say it gets 17+ to zero or something). Quite honestly unless 1 QB shows himself far superior across all situations I am happy with both QBs playing a lot on meanigful minutes and going with the best guy for a particular defense and situation. Don't get locked in that you have to stay with a struggling QB, any struggling QB, just b/c you picked him to start the game.
What are you guys talking about, it was all Greg Davis. It's up to him to call the right plays for his guys to succeed, you know.
I was surprised by that as well. After the Applewhite-Simms debacle, I don't think a 2 QB system will work here. Brown could have pulled Mock in the first quarter but he let Mock play through it. Unless the starter warrants benching (turnovers, bad passes, etc.), I don't think the starter should ever be taken out (exception being lopsided score).
What's with the tired defense thing? They weren't tired the drive before Vince came in? I think their D was only on the field for 22 minutes. We didn't exactly play ball control and pound away at them.
IMO Young is not ready to be the starter yet. He was running against a worn out 2nd string bottom tier New Mexico St. team that had already packed its bags. Don't get me wrong I still think what he did was impressive for a first game but people calling for Mock to be benched need to be realistic. Young is still raw. The worst thing Mack Brown could do is start Young and have him struggle. I agree - from what I understand, VY has struggled with "learning the offense". On virtually all the plays he ran, he didn't even have to hand off. The guy is a *spectacular athlete* and has a cannon of an arm ... but we have no idea if he can run a full offense. And he can zig-zag past NMSU ... but he needs to play smart to beat an OU. If the rumors are right about him not grasping the offense well yet, OU will scheme/confuse him to death. Chance wasn't spectacular, but he got the job done. 150 yards on 15 throws / 7 completions is not bad at all - and we were completing some deep passes, which is a great sign (comparatively last year, we had 26 passes for 186 yards vs North Texas). Biggest thing though - he didn't make mistakes. When there wasn't anything there, he chucked the ball out of bounds. That's exactly what he needed to do. I would like to see them open up the offense more in the next few games though ... we went almost exclusively with 2 wideouts ... I'd like to 4 or 5 wide and see what we can do. Unfortunately, we still have no running game, and no matter how much it improves, I'm betting we'll have no running game against OU or KSU - it's going to be a mastery of the passing attack that wins those games. What I'd do is bring in VY at other positions. Get him in at running back and let him run his draw that way. Or wideout and throw him a 2 yard pass and let him go. Basically, get him the ball in other ways than QB - he needs to be on the field.
Major is right. However, VY gives a new dimension to the offense. I agree that Davis sucks as a coordinator....NMS was lining up 8-9 in the box and UT kept trying to run it. A simple slant pattern could have taken it to the house. Unimaginative offense will beat the weak sisters of the west, but not OU. DD
Some of my nephew's friends have been going to the practices and said the only reason Young isn't starting is because he can't throw the short ball at all. He has no touch what so ever. He either throws it into the ground or over the receiver's head. Mock on the other hand is a much better all around quarterback that doesn't make many mistakes. With veteran squad this year, I can see why Mock is the starting QB even though he is less talented.
I don't have a problem with Young coming in to run some plays or even being worked into the offense at another position. I just don't like subbing QB's every other drive.
In the Chance Mock vs. Vincent Young thread(or whatever it was) I said Young is a Vick clone. I'll stick to my word. THis kid was a force to be reckoned with in high school. I expect him to be that same way in college, and one day in the pros.
I thought the debacle was that they didn't use the 2 QB system enough. By the time they pulled Simms in his bad games it was too late. With two QBs that are close to equal overall but who excell in different ways is exactly the right situation to substitute more frequently. The lesson should be unless 1 guy is clearly better, if one guy goes 1.5 quaters at the most w/o moving the chains pull him. A couple fo 3 and outs in a row can be just as bad as interceptions. I disagree to an extent with this take. The QBs that have moved it the most against OU the last few years just went in and did their athletic things for the most part. Unless you are Dan Marino or the like, just trying to make the proper read and playing within the system gets you nowhere against OU--you have a better chance with someone who can makes things happen on broken plays. They are just too good to try to out think or out scheme in a conventional offense. In sum I just think Mack should be very open to use VY and use him early if things are not going well against OU or KSU. Moch should be fine maybe even better against most teams than VY--but OU is a different animal and requires exceptional playmaking skills from the QB. Now if UT's defense proves as unbreakable as say OSU's last year or OU's over the better part of the last 3 that could change things--but honestly while the secondary is there and has been there like previous years the UT front 7 does not look as dominating as the truely elite defenses so I don't think they can rely on their defense entirely to win big games.
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63167 Well our unofficial poll had Mock slightly ahead as the UT starter, but it was very close-- pretty much 50-50. Anyone care to change their vote?
IMO the 2 QB system created a rift among the fanbase. Brown used the 2 QB system during the 2000 season. Neither QB could establish a rhythm. Fans took sides as to who should play more. After the loss to OU (63-14), Brown abandoned the 2 QB system for stability. He hasn't used it since. I know it works well at some schools but it didn't work well here. Everything is fine if the team is winning but when the team loses it all goes to hell. UT fans will take sides again. The only thing Young showed last night is that he is very athletic. Some of those plays were designed passes and Young bailed out very quickly. He will continue to have happy feet until he learns the offense. His happy feet will get pounded by KSU and OU. He's just not ready. We need to work him in slowly, a couple of plays here and there. He's not ready to take over yet.
The first time I saw Vincent Young was on a local Access TV station in his HS sophmore season. He was tall but very raw. Madison was playing Yates and I didn't think Young was that special. He was a very good runner but could barely pass. However, even back then it was hard not to acknowledge the athleticism. He needs to learn the playbook and demonstrate more than just tucking the ball and running. Also, he needs to put less air under the ball in deep routes. That pass Sunday wouldve been picked off by a good safety. It hung in the air forever. The fact he's only a redshirt freshman should make every UT fan incredibly excited.
Some further comments on the issue: 1. How the hell did Mock "earn" the job? People keep using that word, but I don't know. Does sitting on the bench for 3 years earn you a job? What about handing off in blow-out losses? If so, Nordgren has an even better claim than Mock. As for the practices and spring games... such exhibitions are always biased towards the efficient, competent, qb and against the spectacular, but raw qb. 2. Is Young's lesser grasp of the play book really a good reason to deny him the starting job? I don't think so. Hell, if the Falcons can run a dumbed down playbook and win in the NFL, then Texas can in the NCAA. 3. Did Young really even get a fair shot in spring training? It was promised they'd both get a chance to compete for the job. I've heard though from an older friend of mine who donates a ton of money, and actually knows the coaches, etc... that the competition was a bit of a farce. Young was never put in a position to have a chance at the job. It was sort of: well, we'll call it open competition... and if Mock looks like donkey excrement, we'll start Young, provided he plays like Dan Marino circa 1985... but otherwise, it's Mock. When you're dealing with two unproven players, I think that's a mistake. But at the very least, don't say there's real competition. 4. Despite all this, I think Mock should start for now. If nothing else, being a bit older and more mature should tip the balance. But I think it should be more like the 1A and 1b that Georga ran w/Greene and Shockley quite successfully. Mock gets, say, 70% of the snaps... but Young plays in important situations as well as a change of pace. 5. This is not Simms v. Applewhite. Applewhite was a proven starter, who had succeeded and been battle tested. Mock has not.
I agree...I saw the kid play in high school, and he was as impressive or more than any high school athlete I ever saw. It does not surprise me in the least that he looks like he's playing an entirely different game than the rest of the kids on the field.
haven, there was not a competition at all. Mock was annointed the starter before sprinc practice and he got the starter's reps and played with the first string. Mack went straight with experience and Vince would have had to have been flawless to win the job. For those that attended practice, how often did you see Young play with the first string O against the second string D? It was rare. FWIW, Young played better in the last scrimmage (with second team O vs 1st team D) than Mock did. I'm not saying Young should be the starter, but there was not a competition.
I still like Mock as the starter. Texas has the best receiving corps in the nation and they need to be utilized. All Mock has to do is get the ball in their hands, especially Roy Williams. We've seen what that guy can do with just a quick screen pass. Texas needs a QB that can wait for the receivers to get open instead of panicking and taking off before they even finish their routes. Don't get me wrong, I love VY. He is a great change of pace from Mock and should get playing time this year, even against OU. But Mock should start. He is the man until proven otherwise.
