Agreed. I think it just increases the gap between the Celtics and Heat, but Ray Allen isn't the same guy he was 5 years ago. I think Jason Terry and improvements from Avery Bradley more or less replaces him, and the addition of Jeff Green also cements them in the playoffs. I'm expecting Scola and Martin to be moved to these bubble East teams. Martin to Atlanta for the return of our own pick and expiring contracts makes sense to me, and I could see Scola as a fit in Milwaukee or replacing Brand on the Sixers.
Actually, that's pretty good, NIKE. I guess it hadn't cemented in my mind yet that Atlanta now has the Houston pick. I'm not sure they'd give that up, but if they got Martin for expiring crap, I don't see why not -- they'd fill a hole with a very good player and not hurt their 2013 cap room goal. Obviously, the Dwight domino will have to fall and Atlanta, Houston would both have to lose out (as far as a trade is concerned), but I would really like to see the Rockets gain more cap flexibility and picks in deals to sell off Scola & Martin.
I don't see how that would happen. They'll be a lottery team with at least a few western teams ahead of them.
Mark my words -TOR has Mike James deux cept there's vids of him passing... Where'd they end up that contract year?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...25nuBg&usg=AFQjCNG_lCVG8wI-WJa5T3_YbSNfE3ns-g Mike James is upset -"they say you miss 100% of shots you take" "I hope they find whatever they're looking for"
Actually, if the Rockets strike out on Dwight and decide to do a total rebuild, I'm not so sure they dump a guy like Kevin Martin just to get their pick back. For a rebuilding Rockets team, they'll be firmly in the lottery for a couple of years; and Houston will not be looking to trade away other future picks they own. Meanwhile, if the Rockets are truly bottoming out, that pick obligation very well may end up being a 2017 second rounder and cash. I'd rather just play Martin, increase his trade value, then trade him for something potentially more valuable than that.
But you know the Rockets -- no way they plan on being a lottery team until 2015-16, and not having that pick owed gives them the flexibility to trade their first rounder when a star deal surfaces... especially if they are a lottery team for a year or two and some team thinks they may still be in getting their first round pick. I think ideally the Rockets, in a "we lost Dwight" scenario, would look to move Scola and Martin in deals that clear cap room, letting Daryl be the guy who is handing out medicine throughout the year to luxury tax payers at the bargain-basement price of their first round picks.
True, but why deal Martin's expiring contract (your single best salary-matching asset for a potentially huge trade next season) in exchange for multiple scrubs' expiring contracts, just to get back that pick? The Rockets could offer something else to Atlanta instead (e.g., Terrence Jones for that pick plus something else). I agree on the "Fallback Plan" strategy, though. I've been saying that for almost a year now. Go into the season with cap room, use it strategically to acquire additional picks and other assets. Rebuild.
Maybe, though I wonder if Martin's situation is similar to Lowry's -- the relationship is just beyond repair. If Martin goes into Operation Shutdown, his trade value at the deadline won't be much. Just a first round pick isn't much of a haul, but I'm not sure how much more you'd realistically expect without taking on a bad contract. Atlanta could potentially re-package their Joe Johnson haul (except for Stevenson), and then they've saved several million this year (difference in Joe Johnson and Kevin Martin's salaries) and erased the long time obligation. I think the added benefit of having another team stay ahead of Toronto is worth it. Edit: It sounds like what's at stake is what Martin's value for his skill absent his contract. I have no idea where it sits right now. I don't think very much of it at all, given his injury history and his shutdown last year. I suppose it also depends on if the Rockets do end up keeping Courtney Lee around. With rebuilding mode happening, I'd love to clear out minutes for Jeremy Lamb.
In a perfect world yes, but who's to say Martin will be motivated enough to increase his value? Martin's history tells me injuries pop up more than not when he's not happy with his situation. Is it possible to get more for Martin? Sure. I guess you can choose to ride it out and see if it works in the Rockets favor, but I wouldn't be opposed to cutting bait and adding a second round pick or two if possible.
Definitely is your best salary-matching asset and we're talking about if they fail to get Howard, but can't see them holding on to it until the trade deadline. It makes sense, but I've got to stick with the call last season that both Lowry and Martin are done here. I don't think Martin plays another game in a Rockets uniform. The Rockets have been operating the last few weeks as if both Lowry and Martin aren't even part of the team... don't think he'll be back. IF they can't get that star player this summer, I think he gets dumped for cap room or picks, or perhaps a similar-sized contract that could then be used in the same manner you're talking about -- as an expiring at the deadline (and we do this all over again... again).
More or less. I frankly don't support trading Martin or Scola, and especially not Scola, because I don't like the idea of taking a bunch of under 25 years old, giving them the keys, and telling them "good luck", especially since McHale is hardly the most disciplined coach. You need veterans on a rebuilding team to ensure discipline, commitment to winning, and so on, and no one does that better than Scola. You just dump them and let Parsons run the team, and we'll become the Kings and Bobcats - and in contrast to the pro-tanking squad, that would be terrible for me.
I agree that if we're rebuilding it becomes important to have a presence like Scola or, say, a Camby (although he's likely gone). I can't make the same argument for Martin though. Martin went through the same thing when Adelman left SAC and the org gave the keys to Tyreke. Without veteran leadership like the two fore mentioned players, you definitely run the risk of becoming the Kings or worse the Wizards.
Also, wanted to add great OP, Nike. This breakdown should be stickied in some way. Thus, preventing more of the ,"omg why did Morey trade Lowry? I just can't understand for the life of me."- type threads.
NIKE did such a great job with this thread that I think it's worth bumping every time there is a significant change in the East. If this deal goes down... Philly was already listed here as a playoff probable, but I think this deal cements their playoff spot, assuming Bynum's health (not always a safe assumption). The strength of that team was the defense and losing Iguodala and Brand will hurt, along with the scoring from Lou Williams, but I think they can fill those losses nicely. I'd say it's safe to cross Orlando off the list -- they're done. So unfortunately we still only have 5 teams in the East that look like strong bets for the playoffs. I'm hoping Chicago can remain competitive until Derrick Rose returns and Atlanta, Brooklyn, Milwaukee and Washington all prove to be better teams than Toronto. I'm not really confident about Detroit for some reason. It does look like there's going to be a big learning curve still for Valanciunas. We've got to hope that one of their young players (Bargnani, DeRozan, Lowry, maybe even Ross as a rookie) doesn't make a big step forward.
I didn't think we wanted a 13th-14th pick from Toronto anyway. That seems like the last thing we need, especially given our rookie-filled roster and next years weak draft. To me, it seems the best possible scenario we can hope for is if Toronto squeezes into the playoffs for a couple years until the top-3 protections wear off then they drop off miserably as they always do. The way the protections are set up on this pick, I think we could wind up hitting gold. Same goes for that Dallas pick in 2018 depending on what the time-frame for their inevitable rebuild is.
