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Trump being sued under emoluments clause

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by JuanValdez, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    From the article, it looks like the argument is that DC and Maryland have suffered economic damages because potential customers to their convention and hotel spaces have instead gone to Trump because of his unfair advantage. That side of it looks frivolous. But, I think the emoluments are serious. Corporations and foreign powers will do business with Trump businesses expressly to curry political favor from him (whether it is effective or not), and prices at Trump properties have already gone up due to the demand. Trump has already been enriched and will continue to be enriched by this attempt at laundered bribery. And who is to say the strategy won't work? It might. So, I think the emoluments clause makes sense and is perhaps applicable here. Trump doesn't necessarily do anything corrupt, but he does create a moral hazard. The merits of the case I can't guess at.
     
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  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Look up "blind trust."
     
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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    You have to consider the potential of conflict of interests and specifically why the founders put in the emoulements clause. Keep in mind too that legally you don't have to divest but many candidates have divested including ones like Romney and GW Bush who had substantial fortunes because ethically it raises many problems. Also divesting isn't something that strips them of their wealth and once they leave office there isn't anything that keeps them from reinvesting.

    One would hope that our leaders would recognize the ethical conflicts that could arise from owning businesses, and in Trump's case businesses that are working with and benefitting from the government, and avoid that for at least their time in office. In this day and age that seems like too much to ask for.

    [Edit] as Deckard notes ethically they don't have to divest as Deckard notes they can put their holdings into a blind trust.
     
    #23 rocketsjudoka, Jun 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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  4. dmoneybangbang

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    This. It's pretty simple to do.
     
  5. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/01/news/economy/romney_fortune/index.htm?iid=EAL

    This is a pretty good article on what Romney did as governor and what he probably would have done as president

    I used to not have a problem with Trump in this issue cause I thought he was in fairly unique situation with his wealth

    The problem with Trump is obviously his ego. He cherishes his role and image as head of the Trump empire

    If it isn't required by law to divest or put your assets in a blind trust then it's just not happening

    Is it required by law, it doesn't seem to be
     
  6. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The clause actually says you can't receive a present from a foreign government or official from foreign government
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    A foreign government sending business your way while you are president is considered a gift. Think about it.

    Good game tonight. Go Cavs!
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The funny thing about the clause is foreign leaders exchange gifts all the time in public

    Didn't Saudi Arabia give Trump that sword

    Not making any argument just an observation
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Gifts or money ... what is the intent of the law either way??

    For our elected officials to not make decisions for personal gain over the benefit of the American people right?

    I'd say that the court will have to take a look at Trumps finances and the finances of the organization to really know where the money is going. Especially since Trump org has been evasive about things like donating profits as Farenhold from WAPO has reported for weeks. As long as the state is able to prove that Trump international is hurting other hospitality organizations in DC I think this case will get looked at in court.

    This is Something that honestly should have just been disclosed before running for president instead of putting on that Sham of a press conference with the stacks of empty folders. Once again Trump is his own worst enemy and continues to get in his own way.

    Should have just done what any half wit about to be president would have done and released his taxes and setup a blind trust. Blame Dems all you want but again this is Trumps own fault for putting himself in a completely avoidable dilemma.
     
    #29 dobro1229, Jun 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I don't think it would be simple while accommodating all the other stuff Trump wants to do. He uses his children as advisors formally and informally. If Trump himself is shielded from the Trump Organization, his sons will still know what's going on with it. They can either keep him informed directly, or it could influence the advice they give. Trump's nepotism contributes to the big tangle of conflict of interests.

    The lawsuit would clarify whether it is or not. Honestly, it's fine with me if the suit fails. I think the arrangement is really bad, but I'm not very clear about whether it violates the Constitution. So, if the courts test it and find in Trump's favor, so be it.
     
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  11. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member
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    That Trump trusts no one outside his kids is a primary reason no blind trust was gonna be established. Even then, I don't think he'd want to give up power over his assets, even to his kids.

    Besides, even if a blind trust was established, what would the trustees discover when they looked closely at the books? Given his behavior regarding these investigations, and his refusal to show tax returns, I think that is a question worth considering.
     
  12. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Likely going to the Trump Presidential Library Mar Lago.
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The IRS saw the tax returns

    That's all that matters

    Rachel Maddow got a hold of his return. It proved one thing. He is rich
     
  14. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member
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    It's not, unfortunately. The IRS is concerned with the financial and legal correctness of the paper work filed. They aren't generally concerned about the relationships Trump has with Russia that those documents may reveal. Remember, it wasn't the IRS or SEC that caught Madoff.

    Moreover, Maddow got a short form and did not get any supporting documents in which Trump would have to report foreign partners, lenders, and investors. You don't report them on the 1040. Moreover, given nesting doll of LLCs Trump uses to manage his borrowing and business assets, Maddow knows nothing. She overplayed her hand and made a mockery of a serious and legitimate line of questions. What trump probably wants to hide isn't in the tax returns themselves, but in the questions the returns may raise.

    Ultimately, the onus is on Trump, not those of us who are asking for transparency. Why should this person of all people be continuously allowed to ignore American precedent and traditions regarding financial transparency? Why is he beyond investigation?

    It matters that Trump doesn't want us or any investigators to see his personal financial documents -- the least of which are the tax returns. It could all lead to nothing. Who knows, except Trump, his family, and his lenders? But what matters above all else is that we do not want the precedent to be set that a sitting president of the United States of America can have secret and active interests in unknown business that conduct business with and receive payments from foreign governments.
     
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  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    The gifts are required to be given to the National Archives. Under 3 sentences.
     
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  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The IRS is concerned about paying what you

    It's all that matters

    Edit: Ford was the first candidate to offer returns
    Income tax has only been law about 100 years
    Its a faux outrage topic
     
    #36 pgabriel, Jun 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  17. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    I'm torn on this, as I was on the various legal proceedings against his immigration policy. I don't particularly agree with the claims, but I'm glad to see the courts being actually used to contain government, which is one of their main roles. That has been missing, completely, for far too long.
     
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    How can you not care that trump refuses to disclose his tax returns, that he hasn't put his alleged fortune in a blind trust? How can anyone not care?
     
  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Because I don't expect him to be a criminal

    It's not anything for the governor of TX sec of state or Illinois Senator to disclose their income

    It's already public knowledge

    We're starting from the ridiculous assumption he would take on the tremendous task of running for president to 15% on car insurance or something

    Including funding his own campaign
     
  20. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    It's astonishing to me that you can be so blasé about this.

    Here's a little nugget of information I ran across and it makes me glad I live in Austin - the Houston Texans contributed $2,010,800 to trump's campaign. Bizarre.

    https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contributors?id=n00023864
     

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