trump and NATO

So are we complaining that he's attempting to strengthen NATO or are we complaining that he's trying to weaken NATO? Which is it?

 

Your understanding of international trade is indeed minimal ... dare I say Trumpian in scale of ignorance.

 

Except that there is no need to publicly shame them. The requests have already started working as they've been increasing for the past 4 years.

European allies have actually already sent their troops to fight beside American troops in defense of the United States. So the U.S. is getting the ultimate in help from the European allies. Luckily United States troops have not had to go and fight alongside the European troops in defense of the European nations.

But even if you did feel the need to publicly shame them, where should the priority of the president's energy be spent. On trying to milk more money from our allies who provide us with billions in trade and wealth, who share our democratic ideals, and who have sent troops to fight with ours to defend our nation, or should it be spent in trying to protect our democracy from an adversary who has already attacked our democracy and attempted to do the same thing to our allies?

To most Americans, the answer would be obvious. To our president, he spends more time going after the allies of the United States while refusing to take steps to further protect our elections, buddies up to the leader who ordered the attack on our democracy.

The behavior doesn't benefit the United States. It does benefit Russia who is our adversary.

 

This only helps Putin. If you don't think Putin doesn't have something on Trump and family then you are an idiot. All he is doing his helping Russia. When he meets with Putin (Alone...with no aides/no record), he will give a status update and new orders.

 

I disagree. When they have been increasing for the past 4 years and still say they are going to take 6 more years to get up to what they should have been doing all along, they need to be shamed for it. Again, if the US cut their contributions to NATO down to 1% of GDP instead of 3+ where they always stay and then told the rest of the NATO allies that we were going to stay down at that level for another decade, what would happen to NATO? It would be unacceptable and IMO having a nation like Germany remaining below the minimum is completely unacceptable.

Also, "milking more money from allies" is how you strengthen NATO in order to protect EVERYONE against Russian threats. Also, when you talk about trade with Europe, that's just another area where they benefit more than the US does. Now that's not saying that trade and NATO aren't mutually beneficial things, but clearly Europe benefits a LOT more from those things than the US does. Given that they benefit more than the US does, they should at least do the minimum...and do it right now, not in a decade.

 

He is not trying to protect from Russia, he is helping Russia. Trump and family have so many times to Russia it is astonishing. He is doing EVERYTHING to help Putin.

 

Again, it is fine to request more money. It isn't alright to do it in a way that weakens the alliance.

It is definitely mutually beneficial since the goals of our European allies and the United States are the same. Trump seems to be the only one who doesn't know that.

I disagree with you on who is helped more. I think it is pretty even. They are the only ones who sent their citizens into combat to defend us. The U.S. has not made that sacrifice for them.

 

Ah yes, trying to get NATO allies to start pulling their weight and strengthening NATO is helping Russia, pushing for the contributions to go from 2% to 4% to radically strengthen NATO helps Russia. Amazing hot take. Glad we have brilliant posters like yourself to contribute those takes.

 

The goals of the European allies is to do as little as possible and have the US and UK pay for their defense while benefiting from a trade imbalance with the US (and they are trying to bend over the UK next in Brexit negotiations) so those goals are not really "the same".

When you say that they sent their troops into combat to "defend us", you really mean that they've sent a few troops to fight common enemies....that they've done a little bit of the lifting and it hasn't always been 100% the US doing everything.

So while their overall goals of defense against Russia are the same, their goals when it comes to how to accomplish that are not the same.

 

No...he is creating a wedge. No way those countries will commit 4% and he knows that. Experts have said that is not doable. It is like the wall. He knows he is not getting Mexico to pay for a wall, yet he keeps lying to his IDIOT, Dumbass, RACIST base to make them think he is doing something.

 

He's creating a wedge by forcing them to pull their own weight when it comes to common defense against Russia in order to strengthen NATO, what a maniac.....

If they won't contribute to their own defense, they don't deserve the US doing it for them. Like I said, those countries have MUCH more to fear from Russia than the US does yet they are the ones unwilling to pony up for their own defense.....how does that make any sense?

 

What I mean is exactly what I said. To claim that those are the goals of our European allies is ridiculous. If what you claimed was true, it would be their desired method of achieving our shared goals. But it isn't true at all so it doesn't matter.

I'm sorry that you have belittled the sacrifice of the troops who died alongside those of the United States because they responded to the United States invoking article 5.

 

Ah yes, Belgium, a country that contributes one of the least to NATO throwing shade.....freeloaders are always the loudest when people suggest that everyone start pulling their own weight.

 

Clearly most of Europe are freeloaders when it comes to NATO, there's no argument otherwise and right now they are butthurt by being publicly shamed for being freeloaders. The fact that they've had troops die fighting common enemies in the past doesn't erase the fact that they don't pull their weight.

 

There is certainly an argument about them being freeloaders. You continuing to demean their sacrifice and effort in fighting a common enemy in defense of the United States because the United States invoked article 5 is reprehensible.

What is horrible is that our other common enemy, Russia, is being helped by Trump. That is far worse than taking more time to reach the 2% mark.