[Trump] An invitation for Evangelicals to Debate the Merits of Supporting Trump

If it was about abortion they would have backed another candidate and Trump would have never won the nomination over all the other guys.

While people may say it's about "abortion" that's not why he won - he didn't make abortion a strong pillar of his campaign ever. It was always first and foremost about immigration and race.

He talked about Mexicans, he talked about trade to China and Mexico, he talked about Blacks, he talked about Obama not being a US citizen - it was always about race and foreigners as the boogie man in some form or the other.

Abortion was never the main issue.

 

The “safest” or most principled thing for them to say is that it’s about abortion or religious protection or scotus seats. Saying that it is about race, immigration liberal culture...it makes them sound like an a hole, and nobody wants to think of the,selves as an a hole.

 

I knew it, but didn't have the interest in turning Christmas upside down with a simple fact check. In past years it would have been an all out brawl. Now, I just change the subject real quick or make a joke when its all of them all at once all worked up.

But no... they don't know that because they are highly ignorant, and don't want to know that it is not a liberal Soros funded attack on Trump. They enjoy it.

 

That last line really hits the nail on the head. And I cannot stress enough how much of this culture nostalgia & fear of losing the Leave it to Beaver past (that never really existed) is driven by Fox News. Evangelicals watch it, as do Neo Nazis, as do Suburban White Working Class folks do, as do Rich people who work in industries that benefit from Republican economic drivers.

If it was just about Evangelicals, the Trump administration state TV would be CBN, or whatever network Pat Robertson is on. FoxNews is the one single unifying repository for all these different groups to get all jazzed up with Fear and anxiety that drives them to develop the Trump cult. Everything from a talking point, and messaging standpoint starts with FoxNews, and Trump's twitter feed just bounces the ball back to Fox. Trump cannot exist without Fox.

 

Discretion is the better part of valor.

 

https://billmoyers.com/2014/07/17/when-southern-baptists-were-pro-choice/

I don't doubt the current sincerity, but it is interesting to see where it came from.

There is a parallel with Trump there. Things sometimes take on a life of their own, and develop a sincerity that grew out of something less than on the level.

 

To the liberals, the evangelicals are like the evil jews who used to live in the German walls, waiting to brainwash them into their evil doings while they sleep.

Evangelicals and main stream Christianity are not interchangeable. Evangelicals are much more aggressive and vocal about their beliefs, but a smaller part of the population. Being an Evangelical, you will hear more people talk about such topics like abortion more so than any other. The run of the mill Republican who is not super religious is more concerned about topics like immigration. They understand that giving 10% of their earnings to "God" doesn't guarantee them prosperity and therefore must fight for their prosperity.

 

What is going to be this alternate reality's version of the yellow star? Should Evangicals be concerned? I mean you are comparing their treatment to Nazi Germany Jews.

Anyways I'm fine with Evangicals as long as they don't preach their beliefs into legislation just like I'm fine with Muslims as long as they don't preach their beliefs into legislation.

I'm also not fine with Evangicals prosperity gospel preachers who support Trump out of pure grifting motivation just like I wouldn't be fine with a Imam bootlicking a autocratic leader because it places them in a position of power.

Fundamentalist strains of religion also are generally more tribal. You can see this with many Evangicals communties along with other fundamentalist religious communties. The members in the community are more insular, don't travel out of their bubble as much and just don't interact with other humans that don't share the same beliefs as them as much as the general population. So it's not that Evangicals "doctrine" is inherently racist or bigoted. It's just that the many of these communties are just naturally more tribal and hence it shows more in their views on anything considered outside their cultural sphere of influence.

 

You're making my point. Do you not believe there is a portion of our population who feel racist and bigots should be locked up?

While I do not have many positive things to say about Evangelicals, bigotry and racism is not a root of their movement. Yes, they believe abortion is evil and that [open] homosexuality is a sin. There are many in the movement who will have absolutely nothing to do with them because they do not belong to the tribe, so to speak as you put it, however generally they dont wish death and ill will. They are nothing like the back-woods half wits who hate anything that isnt white.

 

No, and I don't think I ever in my posting history ever remotely implied that.

 

Actions speak louder than words, friend. In the SC primary, Trump beat Cruz even with evangelicals, even though Cruz was a far stronger pro-life and family values candidate than Trump - who was unclear on the abortion issue at times. The reason is simply, Evangelicals see feminists and Muslims - as well as other minorities, as a threat to their values. That is what Trump appeals to. You're not getting the truth when you talk from people because no one wants to admit that it's cultural values - white cultural values, that drove their actual decision. It's much easier to rationalize it as something they are more comfortable sharing.

 

So full of hate for liberals. Perhaps you have grown old and it's affecting your mind?

 

This. Exactly this. Trump was selected out of a field of 17 GOP candidates. Many of whom had much stronger views on abortion and other religous matters. They also were far more nuanced in their policy desires.

So it wasn't policy and values that made people attracted to Trump. It was the bombastic exaggerations of Mexicans coming in as mostly rapists or "thousands upon thousands" Muslims celebrating 9/11 in the streets of Jersey City and Trump hunting for Obama's birth certificate. They loved that ****.
To believe that many rural pockets of southern white Evangelical communties don't hold insular bigoted views is asinine.

Fortunately there is also some pockets of Evangelical communties that do mimick the teachings of Jesus and are far more friendly to entities such as refugees.

The insular world view that many rural Evangelical communities probably has little to do with actual religious doctrine but more to do with culture as the more fundamentalist a community is in their religion the more likely they are going to stick to themselves and live in a bubble. This is a common trait through out the world.

 

People like Space Ghost see racism as black and white, no pun intended. Either you are not racist or you are a card carrying member of the KKK. But there's a whole spectrum in between. Racism isn't the top of a mountain reaches, it's a ladder with many steps which nearly everyone is one.

Evangelicals aren't outright racists (most aren't at least). But they don't feel the Muslims, the blacks, the Mexicans, the feminists, the Asians, share their values which is really code for white cultural values. They fully can accept minority so long as they believe what they do, eat what they do, act like they do, dress like they do. So long as it's in small quantities.

Minorities and liberals are a threat to their culture. It's not just abortion. That's just one issue. They picked Trump who picked Kavanaugh who isn't even committed to overturning Roe v Wade and stated it's an important precedent. Yet Evangelicals are happy. Why?

Because it wasn't abortion that they were really concerned about.

 

Completely agree you aren’t getting the truth when someone says they didn’t like him but....her emails! Of course they love him. They just know he’s toxic and a bigot. If you ask that question now though vs in 2017 you’ll be shocked to see how there’s much more openness from them on their support although it’s still always going to be “but the Dems are evil” as a tactic to justify and put the Dems on trial for Trumps transgressions.

So no don’t ever believe someone who says that. They aren’t being honest and are trying to save face with their liberal friends.

 

The Clinton is so much worse is the biggest lie you can ever hear. That's the rationalization - they would have used it with any Dem. They embraced Trump because they like Trump, not for any other reason. This is a group that has never stood against racism, in fact they stand for it either actively or passively