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[Trump] An invitation for Evangelicals to Debate the Merits of Supporting Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rox>Mavs, Dec 22, 2019.

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  1. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    it might be the local church in Arkansas isn’t innovating it’s form of church. I haven’t heard too much in terms of our church looking at what Arkansas churches are doing. There are quite a few in Dallas (Village, Watermark) that have incredibly vibrant and popular ministries among millennials. I think it just comes down to young people going to a church that isn’t like the ones they grew up in. It has be different enough to where it’s not reminiscent of their parents church.
     
    #101 Rox>Mavs, Dec 25, 2019
  2. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    There’s not. Modern Evangelicalism is about controlling others.
     
    #102 dmoneybangbang, Dec 25, 2019
  3. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    if by control you mean leverage political power to dictate Christian values into legislation and law then yes. That seems to be the prevailing fallacy in Christian thought.
     
    #103 Rox>Mavs, Dec 25, 2019
  4. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    Who decides what Christian values are?

    The freedom to own a slave isn’t freedom, much like the freedom to prevent marriage isn’t religous freedom.
     
    #104 dmoneybangbang, Dec 25, 2019
  5. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    depends on if you’re talking to a Catholic or Protestant. But more to your point, Christian ethics or values are really only to be applied to within the church itself. A standard for believers. To “prevent” marriage of others who don’t consider themselves Christians is silly and foolish.
     
    #105 Rox>Mavs, Dec 25, 2019
  6. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    But that’s not how it works in practice.
     
    #106 dmoneybangbang, Dec 25, 2019
  7. calurker

    calurker Contributing Member

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    Same way Christians support guns.

    Trump is a blunt instrument. Nothing more. Nothing less.
     
    #107 calurker, Dec 25, 2019
  8. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    i know and I agree, hence the reason for this thread. This is a debate that has to be had within the church and amongst evangelicals. There is errant theology and application of that erroneous theology. Not only is it damaging the church’s standing in society but it’s dividing the Church. It’s hard not to question the voracity and authenticity of other evangelicals faith or at the very least their theological education and training.
     
    #108 Rox>Mavs, Dec 25, 2019
  9. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    I absolutely concur and have used the same description. Evangelicals use Trump as a blunt tool to get what they want without any of the hard work the Church was mandated to do.
     
    #109 Rox>Mavs, Dec 25, 2019
  10. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    Unfortunately the “good” Christians get out voted/out shouted by the other Christians so its the other Christians that become Christianity.
     
    #110 dmoneybangbang, Dec 25, 2019
  11. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    I’m afraid you’re right. I feel out matched. And many of my like minded fellow leaders shy away from the discourse because it sows what feels like division but I think we’re already too late. The debate should have happened decades ago. I wonder where the educational institutions and seminaries were for all of this. I remember one of my professors underscoring how dangerous it would be to append Christianity with the Flag. That was 15 years ago.

    Not that the Catholic Church is without it’s own flaws, but it’s times like this I wish evangelicals had the governance, structure and accountability that Catholics do. Someone needs to thump these evangelical leaders.
     
    #111 Rox>Mavs, Dec 25, 2019
  12. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Your anecdotal experience trumps my anecdotal experience.

    Good to know.
     
    #112 No Worries, Dec 25, 2019
  13. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    Dmoney... I get what you're saying and I love Rox response...

    But unfortunately we keep trying to group every religion into one or as evangelical...

    Please trust me there is a difference between Protestant, Methodist, Baptist, Catholic and non-denominational.

    So the things you have stated about slavery and dominating is not a part of non-denominational... we are not bound by a certain religion...

    So in general it's not fair or right to group all religious as one neither is it fair to say that all churches are losing young adults..

    T_Man
     
    #113 T_Man, Dec 25, 2019
  14. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    I just said “bad” vs “good”, which is my subjective opinion.

    I was raised very Catholic so I do know the difference between different denominations. Slavery happened in the Bible Belt, Southern Baptist’s split with Baptist over slavery.

    I stand by statement that “good” Christians get out voted/out shouted because that’s what most people think of as Christians now.
     
    #114 dmoneybangbang, Dec 25, 2019
  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It's all about immigration. In reality the Republicans inherited all the Jim Crows from the civil rights era. Evangelicals overlap strongly with those folks.

    The Republican platform is one of anti-immigration. That is what makes Trump so popular. He started off as a party to restore the dignity of White America. Make America Great Again has always been a dog whistle to put white people back on top (even though they are still on top).

    Ultimately many Americans (white Americans) believe this country should be a country ruled by White Jesus-loving men. Trump is aligned with that vision, and thus has the Evangelicals support. It's really that simple.
     
    #115 Sweet Lou 4 2, Dec 28, 2019
    LosPollosHermanos, No Worries and Jayzers_100 like this.
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    The #1 topic at our family after Christmas get together yesterday with my trump loving family was of course.... Home Alone 2.

    I think in regards to the OP’s question, it’s maybe just more simple than we are thinking of. It’s simply a perceived Culture War.

    Evangelicals align interests with all other Trump voters because in the end it comes down to a perception that the changes to muh culture over the past decade are an existential threat, and nobody.... I mean nobody is a bigger stoker of the culture war than Donald Trump. Evangelicals mostly long for the Leave it to Beaver good ole days that only really existed on TV.

    Think of where we are now though with a eye rolling grumpy old man culture war. What started off so silly has now led to a very dangerous cult like following with millions of Americans honestly believing that giving their Cleric all the power of the State to become a dictator with no democratic checks or balances is a good idea. This is someone who has continually pandered to neo nazis, separated Children from their parents just because he likes the cruelty, and openly is trying to dissemble alliances that are there to keep world peace and prevent WW3.

    So in the end it’s simple... it’s a culture war that aligns with Evangelicals longing for the good old days in their mind. It’s about being angry about Home Alone 2 or Nike for putting Kapernick in an ad. Then that angry feeds into the most dire of consequences. Life and death consequences for millions of people around the world just because a tv ad or a movie makes you throw a temper tantrum.

    Sad.
     
    #116 dobro1229, Dec 28, 2019
    joshuaao and RayRay10 like this.
  17. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Not to detail this interesting thread, but did your family know the edit was made in 2014?
     
    #117 bobrek, Dec 28, 2019
    RayRay10 likes this.
  18. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I find this thread a thoughtful, respectful discussion of an often emotional and highly personal topic. Kudos to all those involved. I do also find it curious that its largely represented by one side of the political divide (which might provide an explanation for my first observation?).
     
    #118 NewRoxFan, Dec 28, 2019
  19. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    So far in my debates with trump voting evangelicals it’s about abortion more than anything else. I haven’t heard immigration as a big reason but it might be another minor reason to support him.
     
    #119 Rox>Mavs, Dec 28, 2019
  20. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    I do agree this feels to be about the culture wars. Which as I’m drilling down into it more it’s not so much about evangelical Christianity as much as it is about “American” Christianity. There is an existential threat, but it feels more of a threat to the “American” way of life than it does to the Christian way of life.

    I’ll put it this way. I’ve been a Christian for 24 years now. Grew up Buddhist and from immigrant parents. I’ve been in ministry for 15 years and a good portion of my network are likeminded Believers. Most of my community will never support trump and like me, can’t fathom why any Christian would. But most of my community I wouldn’t describe as Christians than herald from a history of American culture. They aren’t particularly patriotic but more concerned about the work of the Church.

    So yes, I think this comes down to at least in part a cultural and existential threat that isn’t really about Christianity. Christianity is being used as a convenient and plausible excuse for defending a culture that is under perceived attack.
     
    #120 Rox>Mavs, Dec 28, 2019
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