1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

This offense is straight offensive

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Bo6, Feb 26, 2024.

  1. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    5,649
    Everybody been looking bad for at least 2 months now. The schemes we run are easily game-planned against and they aren't maximizing our players strengths. It's time to talk about solutions because trotting out the same PnR, DHO, and post-ups clearly ain't working.

    For me, the easiest solution is to copy Denver's offense and run everything through Sengun as a faciliator. If the play breaks down then he can try to finish the play himself. There's a reason he has dubbed the nickname "Baby Jokic" but the way he currently has been playing resembles more of Jonas Valanciunas....

     
  2. xtruroyaltyx

    xtruroyaltyx Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    10,780
    Likes Received:
    12,996
    They already run a bunch of offense through Sengun.

    The issue is that we are a poor outside shooting team so when Sengun gets doubled and he kicks it out we have guys missing shots they should be making.


    This offense will look a lot better when we get better offensive players.
     
    BallSoHarden, albuster, JW86 and 10 others like this.
  3. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    46,822
    Likes Received:
    18,538
    Not having shooters that’s space the floor with do that
     
    albuster, pmac, Joe Rocket and 3 others like this.
  4. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    4,675
    The denver offense works because they have probably the greatest offensive player the sport has ever seen. We do not. Even when Murray and mpj missed a year they were elite on offense, because he does it all himself.
     
    BigShasta and tagedieb like this.
  5. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    5,649
    It's currently run through Sengun as a score-first option, not as a facilitator.
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  6. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,354
    Likes Received:
    18,364
    Great idea OP. We are the #24 offense and #8 defense.

    Other than random obsession, what excuse is there for whining about defense right now? NOTHING is working on offense except Sengun as the roll man and Sengun in post up. Everything else is incidental. You can't tell me a great offensive coach would not be doing better with this roster than 24th.

    There's no excuse for being practically tied with Detroit offensively right now. Silas's offense with KPJ running it, Green/Sengun a year younger and Stone running practice was barely worse than this. The team WANTED to lose last season and we were almost as good offensively. What's so "winning" about this basketball we're playing on offense?

    Defensively, the 7 teams in front of us are all in the playoffs or contenders. Frankly, we're at or near our capacity here. That's not where you invest all your effort and time.
     
    Bo6 likes this.
  7. Newlin

    Newlin Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    8,092
    Likes Received:
    9,845
    This is true. The Rockets are 26th in the league in FG% and 26th in 3P%. I think they get a lot of good looks, but can’t make the shots. The guy that takes the most three pointers for the Rockets is shooting 30% from three range.
     
    albuster and Corrosion like this.
  8. TimDuncanDonaut

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    13,390
    Likes Received:
    31,287
    Passing out from Sengun is preferred; even if guys are non shooters and miss, I'm ok for team to get fed more, maybe couple guys can get into rhythm.

    But as far as other offensive plays. I think team is running some, but maybe because the wrinkles are new, they need more practice on it. The one that jumps into memory is that recent Pel's game, Q1. At start of that game, they actually tried to get Dillon and Bari involved. But as the game wears on sometimes they default back to old behaviors.
     
  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,354
    Likes Received:
    18,364
    We're supposed to believe that this team is 24th because Jalen didn't make 19 more 3PA's this season? Because that's the difference between him being a 36% shooter and a 30% shooter.

    So that's all it is, Jalen Green didn't make 19 more shots that's why we're as bad now as we were under Silas. That's an acceptable offensive coaching job? Even though Jabari, Sengun and Tari improved. Even though we added Cam, Brooks and FVV. We added Udoka. Tilman and Stone want to win. We got rid of cancers. We signed good locker room guys. The only signing that didn't pan out is Landale.

    It's not because we can't generate corner 3pters (worst in the NBA)? It's not because everyone but Sengun is underperforming within 10 feet of the basket? It's not because we let everyone take mid range shots? It's not because we are asking non-shooters to act like pure shooters? It's not because our paint is more packed than any poor shooting team? It's not because we spent most of the season playing at a snail's pace? It's not because we're terrible efficiency in transition? It's only because Jalen Green didn't make 19 more 3's. Got it.

    So essentially before the season started, if I told you Jalen would fall flat and Sengun/Jabari/Cam/FVV/Brooks would thrive, you would accept a 24th place finish on offense? No you wouldn't. Don't lie to me and don't lie to yourself. Jalen Green is one of several problems on offense, but he is not THE reason this offense sucks. Even if you replaced Jalen with Bridges and Bridges made way more 3's and this team were 14th offense right now, the offense would be underutilizing our players.

    Before you get your panties in a twist: Jalen Green has sucked this season and is a significant reason for our offensive struggles. However, if you are acting like that's only reason why we're 24th, that's a cop out. There has to be something else, whatever you think it may be.
     
    gfab-babyboi and Bo6 like this.
  10. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    36,128
    Likes Received:
    22,642
    We ran this against the Knicks. I liked it. Every faction of fans should like it to, Jalen, Jabari and Brooks got tons of shots.
    It looks like we're trying everything just nothing sticks.
     
  11. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,093
    Likes Received:
    9,700
    The offense isn't as bad as the execution. When guys are getting open looks but they can't knock them down, that's more of a personnel issue. Something has to give. Either Udoka needs to open things up, or Stone needs to find players who better fit the system. It's not a good match right now as things currently stand.
     
    albuster, Crashlanded19, PWR and 2 others like this.
  12. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    5,649
    This is a great point. .7 extra Jalen Green 3 isn't moving the needle at all. We need to be more efficient in every regard when it comes to the offense.
     
    gfab-babyboi and Mathloom like this.
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,740
    Likes Received:
    43,225
    Maybe hijack and hire Malone for Udoka as well......

     
  14. BamBam

    BamBam Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,605
    Likes Received:
    9,760
    I.O.W.U.O. :cool:
    "I'M OFFENDED WITH UDOKA'S OFFENSE"

    [​IMG]


    Go Rockets!!!
    .......
    .......
    .......
     
    #14 BamBam, Feb 26, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
    Ancient Moabite and Os Trigonum like this.
  15. xtruroyaltyx

    xtruroyaltyx Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    10,780
    Likes Received:
    12,996
    Not sure who this response is for, but I didn't say anything about Jalen Green (although he is a BIG PART of the problem). The Rockets as a team shoot poorly. They are in the bottom 5 for field goal percentage and three point percentage.

    The Rockets are currently in the bottom 10 for ppg. Did you know that just ONE more made three per game would put them in the top 15 for ppg and just TWO more made threes per game puts them around the top 5 in offense?

    Rockets are 15th in the league at generating WIDE OPEN 3pt shots, but they are bottom 5 in actually hitting said shots.
     
    albuster, Corrosion and snowconeman22 like this.
  16. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    13,026
    Likes Received:
    7,792
    Not that complicated... If you build an unbalanced roster full of non-shooters you will end up looking like the Rockets. There isn't a scheme that's going to fix the roster or skill.

    Frankly our best chance at winning with this flawed team is grit and grind, slowing game down, limiting possessions, etc... We'll win few more games but still not sustainable in modern game and honestly we don't have enough of those guys either.

    Like I said, no chance at sustained success with this roster construction. Need a trade or two and continued growth from chosen young players.
     
    albuster, PWR, jim1961 and 2 others like this.
  17. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    13,026
    Likes Received:
    7,792
    Jalen is worst or 2nd to worst in WIDE OPEN 3s (6ft bubble) in the ENTIRE league. That's right ALL 400+ players in the league, the rockets SHOOTING GUARD is the worst.
     
    albuster and xtruroyaltyx like this.
  18. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,059
    Likes Received:
    16,011
    It interesting to look at our splits in Wins Vs losses. Offensively , yes we are better in wins , but its not a huge difference.
    .469 vs .452 fg % ,
    .372 vs .336 on 3pt %
    TS is .581 vs .549

    the biggest different is the FTA 26.5 in wins and 21.8 in losses. Still , thats about 2 more whistles , give or take

    The HUGE difference in losses and wins is our opponents offense . aka our Defense

    when we win opponents shoot.
    .426 .289 .519 fg/3pt/Ts

    when we lose opponents shoot
    .488 .391 .607 fg/3pt/Ts

    This to me suggests that the biggest determinant of winning or losing is in fact how our defense played that night. It's tough to untangle all of this because 3pt shooting has higher variance by nature.

    Like others have suggested here our defense got a bit lucky at the beginning of the year with some poor opponent shooting.

    would it be nice if we had a great offense , yes. But given our talent composition , we decided that the best way for us to win games this year would be focusing on defense, it looks like the numbers back that up. Of course theres also the home/road factor too
     
    BamBam likes this.
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,354
    Likes Received:
    18,364
    The Clippers generate the fewest open looks and open 3pters in the NBA and are the 4th best offense. How is that happening? The Rockets generating the 13th most open looks in the NBA is not the end all be all of an offense. When defenders sag off you, that's a wide open shot. When players take 26 foot 3pters at a bad percentage, that's a wide open shot. Is Udoka generating great wide open looks or is Jalen taking a stupid 26 footer? How come Ben Simmons and Russell Westbrook can get so many wide open 3's? These count all the same in those "open looks" stats. What's the point creating catch and shoot opportunities for players who can't shoot and repeating that over and over again expecting different results? Unless you're willing to call that development time, that's a bad strategy.

    We don't have good shooters. We're starting Sengun and Green - two 30% shooters. Brooks and Jabari can only maintain their % at low volumes. The shots are coming late in the clock. On corner 3's - why should we be worst in the NBA in generating attempts? THAT's an actually great look and it's 100% systemic that we're not getting them. The players are nailing them. Even Jalen is shooting over 40% from the corner, but no one is getting attempts there, this fundamental shot is an afterthought. We're not generating those things.

    We're generating a mediocre number of open looks above the break and the mid range where opponents (and our players) know we suck. We need more transition points, FT's and points in the paint. These are not statistically open looks with 4+ feet of space yet they are high efficiency shots. We make them at a higher rate than our currently unchangeable personnel can make their 3's.

    That's where this offense should be headed and it is headed there. Cam, Amen and Jalen are pushing the pace a lot more and Sengun is extremely efficient (PPP) in transition. Udoka for weeks now has been mentioning the pace. We've gone from around 25th to 15th in just over a month, which means we're going FAST recently. It will take some time to adjust to this mid season change, but it will work out well for us. We can't go 82 regular season games at a playoff pace with a bunch of players under 22 that need to improve their shooting and handles.

    What we need to add is a MUCH tighter leash on the zone in which we're generating looks, movement off ball and continue to push the pace. We should run the offense less through FVV, more through Sengun and see just how far we can push the pace. With Cam, Amen, Jalen and eventually Tari receiving outlet passes from Sengun, this team can open up a whole other dimension of scoring. Thunder and Kings are punishing teams this way, we should take a page out of their book.
     
    csnerd84 and gfab-babyboi like this.
  20. carl_herrera

    carl_herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2023
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    814
    Coaching offense and coaching defense are somewhat zero sum in the NBA. Especially for a first year coach. There’s limited time in preseason and almost zero practice time during the year.

    Udoka chose defense as his priority. We’re seeing the outcome.

    He chose to emphasize minimizing turnovers, deliberate pace, and transition defense. That hurts your offense on principle.

    He is equal opportunity on offense and allows guys to take middies and post ups instead of enforcing strict roles and spacing. Players like this and it keeps everyone bought in and engaged defensively. That hurts your offense.

    He gives minutes to guys who play tough on D, regardless of offensive role. That hurts your offense.

    This is what Udoka wants. He’s actively choosing 24th on offense and 5th on defense over something like 16th on both ends. Wouldn’t be my call, but I respect Udoka’s vision.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now