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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Big news today, guys.

    Jeremy Corbyn is delaying plans to schedule a vote of no confidence against Boris Johnson and his government, in an apparent admission that he does not have the support to pass such a motion.

    Labour shifts to delay motion of confidence

    Labour is planning to delay a confidence vote in the Government until mid-September, in an apparent admission that support among Tory rebels has collapsed.

    Whilst Jeremy Corbyn had been expected to table a motion immediately after the summer recess, Labour insiders have signalled a shift in strategy to let Remainer MPs first try to seize control of Parliamentary business.

    Allies of the Labour leader fear that losing a vote immediately after MPs return from their holidays could be seen as a “show of weakness” and would leave him “exposed”.​

    Well, this does not look very promising for the forces of the anti-Brexit Remainer resistance.

    Of course the vote of no confidence was just the first step of a multi-part plan to block Brexit. And not the most difficult step by any means. The next step was to collect enough votes to support a specific alternative government. But if they cannot even generate the support to ash-can Boris Johnson, then the rest of this scheme is likely sunk.
     
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  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Former Labour Prime Minister Gordon Brown has come out today to call current Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's proposal to head a national unity government as self indulgent "madness". Wow, Gordon. Tell us what you really think.

    Instead, Gordon Brown is recommending that the Remainer resistance go all-in with the old, "End-run" tactic, by approaching the leaders of the EU and trying to convince them to "drop" the October 31 Brexit deadline. What this sounds like is the EU trying to extend the deadline without a request or any indication of Parliamentary support from the UK.

    Gordon Brown: Jeremy Corbyn caretaker government plan is self-indulgent madness

    Gordon Brown has dismissed Jeremy Corbyn's plan to install himself at the head of a national unity government to stop a no-deal Brexit as self-indulgent "madness." The former Prime Minister said Mr Corbyn's proposal to rebel Tories and opposition leaders that Labour form a caretaker government belonged to the "silly season."

    Mr Brown said Mr Corbyn, Nicola Sturgeon and Jo Swinson should "stop wasting time filling Government positions that are not vacant" and compared them to Nero fiddling "while Rome burned." Instead he argued they should be focusing their efforts on persuading EU leaders to drop the October 31 Brexit deadline, saying his "instinct" is that they would be happy to do so.​

    One problem with this idea. It requires unanimous support from the heads of state of all 28 countries in the EU - wait for it - including Boris Johnson, who is virtually certain not to agree.

    In any case, it is noteworthy that Brown had trashed the national unity government idea. But it still appears that this is the Remainer resistance Plan A, with no clear, workable plan B even under discussion, as far as I can see.
     
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  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson has stated today from the G7 meetings in France that the £39 Billion would not be owed to the EU.

    Boris Johnson: no deal would mean UK did not owe Brexit divorce bill

    Boris Johnson has said the £39bn Brexit divorce bill would not “strictly speaking” be owed to Brussels in full in the event of no deal, insisting: “It’s not a threat. It’s a reality.”

    Speaking to broadcasters as he prepared to meet the European council president, Donald Tusk, at the G7 summit in Biarritz, Johnson said: “If we come out without an agreement it is certainly true that the £39bn is no longer, strictly speaking, owed.”

    He told ITV: “There will be very substantial sums available to our country to spend on our priorities. It’s not a threat. It’s a simple fact of reality.”​

    But think of what this implies, which is that the UK would be willing to pay the £39 Billion to the EU if an acceptable Withdrawal Deal were to be negotiated.

    The leaders of the EU should take the money, unless they are irretrievably arrogant and narcissistic. PM Johnson is all but offering it to you. And they would almost assuredly benefit from this deal even more than the people of the UK would.

    Take the money!
     
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  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  5. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  8. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

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  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The intolerance of some people in the UK is on display with regards to marriages by their children:

    Nearly 40% of Remainers would be upset if their child married a Leave voter, survey reveals
    • 39 per cent of Remain voters would be upset if their child married a Leaver
    • A third of Labour supporters say they'd be upset if their child married a Tory
    • Less than half of Remain voters would consider dating a Leaver if single
    Nearly two-fifths of people who voted to remain in the EU would be 'upset' if their child married a leave supporter, a survey has suggested.

    A YouGov poll of 2,380 people found more than one in 10 (11 per cent) remainers would describe themselves as 'very upset' if their offspring hooked up with a Brexiteer, while another 28 per cent said they would be 'somewhat upset'.

    However, only 11 per cent of leave voters said they would be in any way upset if their child married a pro-EU partner.​
     
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It appears the the Remainer resistance in Parliament is cancelling the no confidence motion, at least for now, as there is not sufficient support. Instead, they are going to try to focus on legislative options.

    But the reason they did not make this their plan A before now is that Boris Johnson has to propose legislation in order for them to attached their proposals to, or they cannot be brought up. And Boris Johnson has made clear than no legislation will be required or proposed prior to October 31.

    Jeremy Corbyn agrees to prioritise legislation to stop no-deal Brexit

    Jeremy Corbyn has backed cross-party plans to delay a vote of no confidence in Boris Johnson and prioritise rebel MPs’ attempts to use legislation to stop a no-deal Brexit, with plans set to be agreed by the end of the week..

    In a meeting with opposition parties convened by the Labour leader, Corbyn opened the discussion by reassuring MPs that Labour would not seek a premature vote of no confidence that might stymie legislative efforts to stop no deal.

    There could yet be a conflict over who should lead the push for such legislation. Corbyn said he would “propose the parliamentary process which would mean the legislation can be laid”, though other opposition MPs have made it clear they believe the moves must be led by backbenchers.

    Key opposition MPs will convene smaller meetings to discuss plans for legislation over the next 48 hours and party leaders hope to speak again by the end of the week, sources said.​

    It is not at all clear that there is actually a way for them to do this under established UK Parliamentary procedures, aside from some shenanigans by Remainer loyalist John Bercow, who is the Speaker of Parliament.
     
  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Here is some more analysis on how this revised 'strategy' might work. From the BBC:

    Brexit: Opposition MPs agree strategy to block no deal
    So how might opposition MPs' attempt to use legislation to prevent a no-deal Brexit work in practical terms?

    The first challenge would be to get some Conservative rebels on board, because some in the Labour Party (namely Brexiteers) simply won't back it. But with Boris Johnson still insisting he can get a deal, it could well be the case that some Tory rebels unhappy with the prospect of no deal would equally be unhappy to rush into anything that would undermine the PM at this stage.

    So, it is not at all certain. And in any case, even if Mr Johnson was faced with being forced to do something against his will, he has the option of calling on MPs to vote for an election (under the Fixed Terms Parliament Act).

    Yes, Lib Dem Leader Jo Swinson has urged MPs to block that move specifically if Mr Johnson wants to go to the polls only after Brexit. But under most circumstances, when a PM throws down the gauntlet for an election, it would be an unusual leader of the opposition who doesn't take that challenge.​

    So, they try to stir up conflict with the expected outcome being Boris Johnson calling for a vote for a new election. Everyone votes yes. Then it is up to Boris Johnson to pick the date.

    Hmmm. So many days to choose from. I wonder what the parameters of his selection could possibly be? [​IMG]
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Once more, from the BBC:

    What can MPs do to stop no deal?

    At this point, MPs have two potential routes: take control of Parliament's timetable or get rid of the government. Neither would guarantee blocking a no-deal Brexit, but they could lead them there.

    Route 1: Take control of parliament - If the government tries to pass new laws, MPs could attempt to make changes that would force the government's hand. It was initially assumed that the UK would need new laws to prepare for a no deal, for example on agriculture and trade. But ministers have said no legislation will be needed between now and exit day, potentially blocking this route for MPs.

    Route 2: Bring down the government - Seen by some as the "nuclear option", MPs have the option to vote out the government. This could happen as early as 4 September, when Westminster returns from its summer break. Jeremy Corbyn has said he would call a vote of no confidence "at the appropriate and very early time to do it".​
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson, tripling down on Brexit this morning on Twitter.

     
  14. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Johnson and the government have decided to take the ultimate undemocratic step and prorogue parliament.

    I thought the fun with Brexit would start in September but it seems we should get ready our popcorn from now.

    Johnson was doing fairly well and the opposition seemed to be infighting so it is surprising that he has decided to prorogue already.
    So obviously behind the scenes there were moves planned from the opposition that guaranteed that no deal would be stopped.

    What has the Eurozone got to do with immigration?
    Absolutely nothing.

    Greece has 6.000 islands and islets some of them in literal swimming distance from Asia let alone to be crossed by boats.
    In clear weather I can even see the colour of the houses in Turkey from my house in the Aegean.

    Not even a crazy antiimmigration person like Trump would be able to guard this border.
    You can't build walls in the sea.
    You can't fight geography.

    The only way is for the superpowers like the USA and Russia to mind their own business and not create wars and then whipe their hands clear without taking responsibillity of the consequences.
     
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  15. malakas

    malakas Member

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    It is done.
    The Queen approved of the proroguation


    Now it is up to the courts to put an end to the attempted coup.
     
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  16. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Damn, I didn't know the Queen had that much power.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Let the hysterics begin.

    However, the Queen has spoken.
     
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  18. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Nonsense. The Parliament has had three years to get this sorted. The people have voted.

    And the prorogation does not start until after the Parliament has convened for a week again. This is totally fair.

    It is put up or shut up time for the anti-Brexit crowd. They are all going to have to come out publicly and unite out in the open against Brexit, while everyone will be watching and where everyone will see them doing it. They have one last chance and that is the first week in September.
     
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  19. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    The people also voted for Parliament...

    British politics is so weird to me.
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Parliament voted to respect the results of the referendum. And if it had come out favoring Remain, they would have.
     

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