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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Brexit has been approved by Parliament effective on the exit date. This is the law at the EU treaty level. This is in no way altered by whether there is a deal or not.

    If the UK Parliament does absolutely nothing with regards to Brexit between now and October 31, 2019, the UK will leave the EU on that date with no deal. The initial enabling legislation that approved the triggering of Article 50 provides all the legal support that is needed for the UK to exit the EU on that date with no deal.
     
  2. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    That still does explain why you said parliament approved no deal which is false.

    parliament specifically approved to not exit with no deal so what has changed.

    I ask you again why do you think the new MP can get parliament to agree to no deal when parliament has shown that's not what the majority wants.
     
  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Parliament approved the legislation that enables and could actually end up requiring the UK to leave the EU with no deal. That is what I was speaking to, as I think you know very well.

    Parliament does not need to agree to anything else for the UK to leave the EU with no deal. When they approved the triggering of Article 50, they approved the UK leaving on the designated date regardless of whether there was a deal or not.

    All that is left for the Tories to do now is to run out the clock. As long as they do not enable that process to be blocked or interfered with, then that is there way to get this done.

    Nothing else needs to be passed by the UK Parliament. Nothing.
     
  4. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    people still debating Brexit as if it hasn't already been voted on
     
  5. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    So when are you gonna answer the question?

    How is the new PM gonna get parliament to do something they have already have shown and voted no on?

    Do you think the PM is gonna just not do anything?

    Does he have that kinda power?

    Can he get elected on running out the clock?
     
  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    They are trying to undermine the democratic process and the expressed will of the people in the UK, which was also approved by Parliament when they voted to trigger Article 50. Now some of them, led and financed by the globalist left establishment elites are trying to slither out of it.

    The damage that has been done to the democracy of the UK by their actions is truly incalculable. This is truly evil stuff that we are witnessing here.
     
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Just because you do not like the answer does not mean that your question has not been answered - repeatedly.

    As far as the last question, Iet's watch and see.
     
  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson clarifies that it is not sensible to aim exclusively for a no deal Brexit. Of course he is exactly right. The ideal situation should be to negotiate a mutually agreeable, good deal between the UK and the EU.

    Not sensible to aim exclusively for no deal Brexit - UK leadership frontrunner Johnson

    It would not be sensible to aim only to leave the European Union without a deal but it would not be responsible to take no deal off the table, Boris Johnson, the bookmakers’ favourite to succeed Theresa May as British prime minister, said on Sunday. On Friday former foreign minister Johnson said Britain should leave the bloc with or without a deal on Oct. 31.

    “No one sensible would aim exclusively for a no-deal outcome. No one responsible would take no-deal off the table,” he wrote in his weekly column for the Daily Telegraph newspaper. “If we are courageous and optimistic, we can strike a good bargain with our friends across the Channel, come out well and on time – by October 31 – and start delivering on all the hopes and ambitions of the people.”​

    Sadly, the EU has been intransigent and does not appear to be willing to agree to a deal that is also acceptable to the UK. In fact, the EU appears to be opposed to a deal that actually allows the UK to leave of its own accord, without a last minute approval by the EU. And that the UK cannot agree to if it is truly intent on being a nation that is sovereignly independent of the EU.

    I would expect that nearly all of the Tory candidates for PM who are committed to leaving the EU on October 31, 2019 will come out with similar positions. Of course if the EU continues to remain intransigent about abandoning the backstop provision, then the likely outcome of that will be the UK leaving with no deal on October 31, 2019.
     
  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    SNP Leader Ian Blackford has stated that opposition MP's may not be able to stop a no-deal Brexit.

    Opposition MPs may not be able to stop Brexit, says SNP’s Ian Blackford

    Asked if any prime minister determined to take the UK out of the EU could do so by the default date by not doing much at all, Mr Blackford said:

    “I’m afraid that is the case. I know that sounds absolutely ridiculous but … that is the default position. That’s where we are from the legislation that is already in place so we have to find a way to stop that. The best way of doing it, in many respects, is if the new prime minister does bring forward legislation, but on a no-deal basis that it’s possible they could avoid that. So we are in a very dangerous, very worrying situation in terms of our future as members of the European Union.”​

    The majority party controls what gets debated and voted on, just like the majority party does here in our House of Representatives. If the majority brings up a bill regarding Brexit, then the opposition will have a chance to amend that legislation, which is how the extension request was passed in April.

    But no new legislation is needed for the UK to exit the EU with no deal. If the majority does not advance a bill, then there is nothing the minority can do, aside from trying to promote a vote of no confidence in order to overturn the Majority government and trigger a general election. But it takes time to hold a general election, and if the genneral election date is not until after October 31, 2019, then whoever wins the election would inherit the government of the UK with it no longer being a member of the EU.

    So, if the new Tory PM can hold their nerve, there does not appear to be much that can be done to stop a no deal Brexit from happening, as SNP Leader Ian Blackford has correctly stated.
     
  10. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    "there can be no democratic choice against the europeon treaties"
     
  11. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    I see you are ducking the question.

    You don't have an answer as to why the new PM will get something accomplished that the parliament has voted not to do.
     
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  12. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Parliament Opposes No-Deal
    A majority of members of Parliament are against no-deal (the split was 160 MPs vs 400 in a vote on March 27). But there’s not a clear mechanism for them to prevent it happening, according to the Institute for Government. A determined leader could find a way to bring about no-deal, though it might be constitutionally questionable and members of Parliament could well find a way to prevent it.



    3. No-deal Could Trigger Election
    One way Parliament could stop a no-deal is with a vote of no-confidence in the government. The Conservatives don’t have a majority so it wouldn’t require many Tory MPs to take a stand for the government to be defeated. A Brexiteer hardliner as prime minister would be a divisive leader of the party -- making rebellions more likely. Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond, a pro-EU Conservative, has refused to rule out voting against his own government in order to prevent no-deal.
     
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  13. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Was watching MSNBC last night, and one of the anchors said the "far-right" made gains in the EU elections but so too did the "far-left".

    I nearly pissed my pants I was laughing so hard.

     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Steve Bannon, who helped propel Donald Trump’s populist campaign to the White House, was in Paris on Monday to celebrate the victories of like-minded parties in Europe and gird for the battle ahead.

    “You see the trend, and it’s definitely nationalist-versus-globalist,” he said. He predicted the far-right will prevail by grinding the European Parliament to a halt: “Every day will be like Stalingrad.”

    https://www.apnews.com/6152801851684d879999dbcdc62c1e0f
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    “Every day will be like Stalingrad.”

    What an idiot.
     
    Rashmon, malakas, Nook and 1 other person like this.
  16. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    If EU does break down, it would be great for China and US.
     
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    I prefer a unified Europe compared w/ a federated mess that Russia can mess with.

    Maybe their divisions will make them stronger individually, but I'm not sure where their place in history or center of gravity lies if they break down.
     
  18. Gdaliya

    Gdaliya Member

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    Of the 3 name you mentioned I think that the biggest winner here is Salvini, he has the second/third largest national party in the parliament and more important the results shows that he is the strongest voice in Italy right now

    Orban is kinda in the wrong place in terms of, he and his party should be in the ECR or the ENF.

    LePen, it's crazy to me the fact that her list leader is only 23.
    I actually believe that biggest surprise in France is the failure of the Republican party, one of the biggest losers in the entire Europe.

    Malakas not a single word about your vote in Grecce?, the most diverse country in terms of ideology(from perhaps the most far left ideology to the most far right ideology)

    There would be a pro Europe coalition eventually but i see some eurosceptics taking major positions in the parliament, we will have to wait.

    On a personal note I just don't like Guy Verhofstadt and I hope that it would be his last elections as the head of the ADLE.
     
  19. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  20. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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