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The Formal Impeachment Inquiry of Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by RESINator, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Turley on Sondland:

    "Just for the record, Sondland is yet another example of the ridiculous practice of allowing presidents to reward donors with diplomatic posts. Clinton, Bush, Obama, and other presidents did the same thing. It is bad for this country and I have been writing about this practice for decades. We have great professional diplomats like William Taylor and the others who have testified in these hearings. They should be the representatives of this country, not donors who bring large bank accounts and little discernible intellect or skill."

    https://jonathanturley.org/2019/11/...ador-to-face-grilling-before-house-committee/

    “The Gordon Problem”: Former Ambassador To Face Grilling Before House Committee
    [​IMG]

    President Trump’s European Union ambassador, Gordon Sondland, will appear today before the House Intelligence Committee in what may be the most awaited testimony of the impeachment hearings. Indeed, Sondland has few options and none of them are good as a witness. He has been skewered by witness after witness — leaving the image of a dim-witted braggart with virtually no diplomatic experience and even less judgment. Former National Security Council aide Tim Morrison simply referred to him in clinical terms as “the Gordon problem.” While some of us have questioned whether the Democrats are building a viable impeachment case, they are clearly building a compelling case for a highly inappropriate and damaging campaign for a quid pro quo. Sondland was either a dupe or a designer of that ill-conceived strategy.

    In his opening statement, Sondland states that there was a quid pro quo stated by Giuliani but he is less clear about President Donald Trump. However, he makes clear that he did not want to work with Giuliani but that it was clear that Giuliani was carrying out the wishes of the President. That may throw Giuliani under the bus but it is not likely to make this day any easier for Sondland. On page 5, Sondland makes clear that he came to understand that aid was conditioned on the investigations. That will not however make today any easier for Sondland as members delve into the Trump connections and directions.

    I will be doing the coverage of the hearings today for CBS News and BBC.

    Sondland came to the Administration after a successful career in the hotel business — and after writing a $1 million check to the Trump inauguration committee. Just for the record, Sondland is yet another example of the ridiculous practice of allowing presidents to reward donors with diplomatic posts. Clinton, Bush, Obama, and other presidents did the same thing. It is bad for this country and I have been writing about this practice for decades. We have great professional diplomats like William Taylor and the others who have testified in these hearings. They should be the representatives of this country, not donors who bring large bank accounts and little discernible intellect or skill.

    Accounts of Sondland having a loud conversation with President Trump in a Ukrainian restaurant only adds to his image as a bumbling political operative with a diplomatic title. Sondland gave generously to the Trump campaign and was rewarded with the position. He then appears to have been one of the driving forces with Rudy Giuliani in pushing this “deal” with the Ukrainians.

    Sondland is in the worst possible position as a witness in coming to the hearing with conflicted testimony. He insisted that there were “no quid pro quos of any kind” but then seemed to walk that position back under questioning. His “I now do recall” pivot is deadly in a partisan take-no-prisoners hearings. The question is which direction he will jump. With the recent conviction of Roger Stone for lying to Congress, Sondland knows that any false statement could have disastrous consequences.

    Sondland (like Trump) was helped and hurt by the last two witnesses before the Committee.

    Former National Security Council (NSC) aide Tim Morrison and former U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine Kurt Volker denied hearing any quid pro quo or demands in key conversations. Yet, they also left the impression of Sondland as something of a braggart, or as Volker said in truly diplomatic terms, someone who is “bigger than life.” Ouch.

    The most damaging testimony from highly credible witnesses like William Taylor is that it was Sondland who was unrelenting in pushing for a commitment to investigate from the Ukrainians. It was Sondland who allegedly brought a meeting with former National Security Adviser John Bolton to a sudden end by raising the issue. Sondland seems to appear at every awkward or sinister moment.

    In other words, this is unlikely to go well for Sondland. It never does when your best defense is that I am a well-intentioned but clueless donor turned dupe thrashing around in the world of diplomacy.
     
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  2. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    So If they weren't being honest in an attempt to protect the whistleblower, you feel like every other thing they have said wouldn't be believable?
     
  3. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    "Everyone was in the loop."
     
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  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    But, but zelensky said he didn't know? I mean he *said* it, sitting next to trump, on TV and everything. Could... could zelensky be lying?

     
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  5. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    They all made a really stupid decision not supporting Sondland more behind the scenes because he's snitching for real.
     
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  7. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Contributing Member

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    There it is, the smoking gun, and yet the Republicans still wont accept it. This is politics at its finest.....and yet they still wont vote him out after all this. My gosh, dont they have a tad bit of dignity. My mind was already made up, not just for this but for the entirety of the Presidency. I just wonder for the people on the fence how this will effect them.
     
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  8. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Yeah, he is applying ether. He realized he was going to be the fall guy and he is not going to let them **** him over.
     
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  9. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    For those who don't want to watch, here's the cliff notes version.

    Sondland: Yes there was a quid pro quo, yes we all felt dirty working with Guilani but we had no choice because the president ordered it. I told everyone, literally EVERYONE you've EVER heard of including SecState, National Sec Adv, Ambassadors to everywhere, Senator Ron Johnson, etc. that this was concerning but had to do what we had to do. All of the defensive arguments from Republicans are bogus. Of course Zelensky knew all of this I told him personally. OH AND I TOLD EVERYONE ELSE TOO. Nothing would happen if they didn't investigate Biden. I wanted to tell truth to Congress but White House obstructed the investigation and didn't let me access records so I got some things wrong. I feel bad about all of this, think the policy to Ukraine was flat out wrong, but president ordered it. EVERYONE KNEW. In case you didn't hear me say that 100 times, here are a bunch of examples with names and dates about how I told EVERYONE. (spits out receipts all over Congress) Oh and we handled all of this on Whatsapp. For what it's worth I did all of this in good faith.Thank you for your consideration.
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Whoa!
     
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  11. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Got it. So basically you are desperate because Sondland and others have given solid evidence that Trump is guilty after your concerted effort to cast doubt in the impeachment. So now you and Turley lash out at the whole process of how ambassadors are selected, and anything else that you can in an effort to grasp on to something... anything... one last grasp... gasp of air... as you and your opposition to the impeachment sinks.

    It has been noted.
     
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  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    geez, give it a rest @FranchiseBlade
     
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  13. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I don't know... is conspiracy an impeachable crime?

     
  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Perhaps, you might want to take your own advice?

    I guess it is true that I wasn't being gracious enough. Maybe I was pointing at the scoreboard. I will concede that.

    I think I may have thought since you were dishing it out with multiple 'Keep Hope Alive' posts every time people would post something about this, I felt like I was playing by the rules you established. I thought I was responding in kind.

    I honestly didn't think it would be bothersome to you. I felt like it was still in the spirit of good fun and ribbing.
     
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  17. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Anyone else notice dip$hit's cod-carrier nunes publicly telling Ambassador Sondland that he will be smeared today?

    It won't be by the Dems.
     
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  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    NO QUID QUO PRO

    except for all this Quid Quo Pro
     
  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    L to the OL... You think someone should tell bozoell that trump appointed sondland, perhaps in appreciation to the one freaking million dollars (either US, ukrainian, or russian, not clear) that sondland donated to the trump campaign.

     
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  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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