He and Pelosi are two peas in a pod .... I'm glad they are not on the same team or we might really be in trouble.
I care, but in the big scheme it feels like this: Let's say the Rocks are just killing this year's Warriors in a game and the Rocks win by 34 points. A Warriors fan says "yeah BUT Harden totally travelled on that one step-back in the first quarter! And his defense was LAME in the 2nd quarter!" Both true, both worthy of correcting in future games, but none of that affects the basic truth: the Warriors suck. Here, there seem to be systemic (not anti-Trump specific) FISA court issues that are worthy of better oversight and tweaking. NONE OF THAT affects what Trump did with Ukraine and how he acted once the whistleblower came forward, which indeed was pure and blatant obstruction at every turn. The super-baffling thing to me is how anyone of any party could vote "no" that the dude did not obstruct the congressional investigation. That's like looking at the blue sky and saying it's black.
I do have a huge problem with FISA abuse. That doesn't change any of the crimes, actions, Russia pandering, working with Russia or anything else that Trump has done. FISA abuses are a threat to our rights and should be corrected. It doesn't change any of the wrongs Trump has done.
Did you say B@ffling?? I’ll take a stab at my perspective on why I don’t see it as obstructing the congressional investigation: If I were in the same position and the majority created a set of bullshit rules where I’m not allowed to call witnesses unless they are approved by the guy who coordinated the whistleblower’s report and has selectively released partial transcripts to the media that are not in full context....basically controlling a narrative, I would not participate unless a court requires it. Really a no brainer for me. But I can see how if you want to call it obstructive you can. But if you do, you are ignoring the unprecedented way Schiff ran this thing. Also, consider that everyone knows the whistleblower is a CIA employee. The same CIA that’s being alleged to create the origins of the Collusion investigation. If you are the orange man, I think you’d probably play it the same way. And keep in mind he honestly believes he has done nothing wrong.
...allegedly, right? He’s not accused of this in the articles. Not trying to be an ahole here. Just putting forth the other side’s version. I honestly try to understand both perspectives even though I side with the unpopular one....at this time. I’m open to the idea that something compelling might change my mind. It just hasn’t happened yet.
I’ll take stab at it. You are full of ****. Congress has the Constitutional authority to investigate the Executive branch, as it sees fit. There is no asterisk in the Constitution allowing the President to whatever he damn well pleases. Using your flimsy logic, the President will fully participate in the Senate trial, since he call witnesses, right?
sounds about right. why can’t the minority call its witness in an inquiry? If the script was flipped you’d be crying foul and your full of **** if you say otherwise.
The President is marketing that the phone call was perfect. At this point, who knows or cares what the President believes.
we can both agree it wasn’t perfect. I just don’t see an impeachable offense in asking for an investigation related to the 2016 elections and what he believes is rampant corruption. There has not been one piece of evidence that links the 2020 elections other than Biden happens to be running. To me, that doesn’t make Biden immune from scrutiny.
No, it's not allegedly. Trump himself has admitted doing what he's been accused of doing with Ukraine and did it again with China and had it was televised. The Republicans didn't put forward any defense to say that he never did those things, so it is pretty much accepted by everyone that he did.
sorry. I assumed you were implying there was a criminal offense. I re-read your post. Now, that’s not say there may be a criminal offense that is yet to be proven.
You don't think Trump won the presidency for personal gain rather than actually wanting to serve the country? He won an ego trip by becoming president and then took advantage by getting his business schemes all squared away at tax payers' expense with free flights and stays. He got what he wanted and ready to move on. He won big.
The Constitution grants the legislative branch the authority to conduct investigation and impeachment by their own rules. In the impeachment of Bill Clinton only one witness was allowed and that was Ken Starr. In this impeachment the minority was allowed to call two witnesses. In the Benghazi hearings there was only one public hearing which was the one with Hillary Clinton. Rep. Trey Gowdy who ran the Benghazi hearings even said publicly that he felt that closed door hearings were better at getting to the facts than public hearings. We have a separation of powers and impeachment is under the Legislative branch and not the Judicial branch for a reason. Under the Federalist Papers 65 and 66 it's very clear that impeachment isn't a criminal exercise. Further it is stated that it is a two step process because the House is supposed to act as like a Grand Jury and make the equivalent of an indictment while the Senate is meant to be more deliberative and have a trial. If I'm orange man I would respect Constitutional and Presidential norms and ethics and not do stuff like call upon foreign powers to work with my personal attorney to investigate my political opponents.
Joe Biden didn't run in the 2016 election and Hunter Biden had nothing at all to do with the 2016 election. The idea that this investigation was about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election but focus on the Bidens makes no sense at all.
Investigating Biden and/or Hunter has zero to do with the 2016 elections. Neither Biden nor his son had anything at all to do with the 2016 elections. Why are YOU linking the two? There is no reason for you to try and make a connection of the two. There has been an amazing amount of evidence and corroborating evidence linking it to the 2020 elections. We can start with the fact that Trump not only asked Ukraine to investigate Biden but he also asked China. Trump held up congressionally approved funds that were done in the interest of the United States security on the grounds that the Ukraine publicly announce an investigation despite there being ZERO EVIDENCE that Trump and Hunter were in any guilty of any corruption. Throughout his term in office Trump never once held up aid packages to Israel (the head of their govt. is actually under indictment for corruption), Saudi Arabia (a prince of the royal family is believed by U.S intelligence agencies to be responsible for murder), or any of the other corrupt nations of the world. The only aid approved from congress that was held up was held up to the Ukraine to investigate a political rival despite there being ZERO EVIDENCE that the political rival was corrupt. Are you actually paying attention?
