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The difference between Harden and superstars

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Senator, May 12, 2019.

  1. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    Okay. Actually, you said the opposite ("no fear of the big moment is what holds him back in the postseason"), hence my confusion. But I agree with the sentiment that he needs to learn to take over those situations.

    If Harden from that regular season OT game in Oakland ever shows up consistently in the playoffs, a lot of teams are in trouble.
     
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  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    yes! if that ever carries over, one can only hope.
     
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  3. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Exactly, it's a narrative driven thing.

    If Kawhi misses that shot and they go on to lose people will be talking about how he took too many shots.
     
  4. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I don't think anyone is acting like that. I'm just pointing out Lillard is riding a media narrative that isn't 1:1 with the actual story. Dame isn't carrying Portland. In fact, the real story is how underappreciated CJ has been.

    Like in the first round, Dame wasn't the best player on his team in game 2, or Game 4. That was CJ.

    But Dame's Game 5 performance, which isn't really a "crucial" playoff game, was amazing, and he's riding that.

    The reality, the forgotten story of Portland until yesterday, was just how amazing CJ has been. In totality it hasn't been as good as Dame, clearly... but it's actually really close. Again, Dame is clearly still better, but he hasn't been carrying Portland exclusively.

    But as a #2 perhaps easier for CJ, and he's had a couple "bad" games in the playoffs himself as well.
     
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    he didn't. And this if game is really much of a help at all.
     
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    dame has absolutely had games in this playoff run where he was carrying portland and won them games.
     
  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    A game or two. My point is it's not like Dame vs. the world. CJ as a #2 is better than what the Rockets #2 option was for example.
     
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    im not saying hes done it on his own this entire playoffs but he's more than had his own share. not trying to downplay cj at all. hes coming into his own, I love seeing players like that. im actually jealous
     
  9. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    I think the sad reality is that harden will not win a ring as the best player on a team.

    He almost did last year as the second best player on the team against the Warriors before Paul went down but this series cements the fact that he’s no alpha. He’s Pippen and needs Michael
     
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  10. rockets13champs

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    I think ur arguemrnt makes no sense he’s an alpha but he lacks a pippen. Watching all playoff series warriors got 3 pippens. Dame got 1 pippen. I blame this on Chris paul
     
  11. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Right, and I guess my point would be Game 3 for Harden against GSW was coming up big in a crucial game.

    Certainly a much more crucial game than POR-OKC's game 5 where Damian exploded.

    Damian has had the better best game, but the narrative of it is actually what drives home the performance more than the performance. The series winning shot. The 50 points. Etc.

    I'm not really sure how this is relevant anymore though, lol.

    I guess I'm just saying narrative drives a lot, and because Harden has been "good enough" to get to the Warriors deep in the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years, the ultimate narrative for Harden is always going to be negative.

    BUT... that's the realist in me. I'm not hating on Harden. But whether the narrative is against him or not, he does always underperform, on the whole, a lot relative to regular season, and has some spectacularly crappy games in important moments. At least that second part didn't happen this year, lol.

    We'll see how Portland does against GSW. I don't think anyone expects much... but than again, that backcourt is playing very well, and if they just go in with a laissez fair attitude and at least make them exciting games, I'll respect hat.
     
  12. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    he's a regular season alpha. postseason beta to date. and after 30 will that change? maybe maybe not but its not that likely

    You know why the rockets need a better player because he isn't that alpha. it was once again evident in game 5 and 6 where the games were 50/50 wins and your "alpha" needs to dominate. obviously didn't happen
     
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  13. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    I don't think what were saying about harden is hating on him at all. well for me at least. we're just discussing what we've seen for years now. that's all we can go by and that's results and performance
     
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  14. Vivi

    Vivi Member

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    In the end it's really hard for me to criticize Harden that much...i do agree that he was underwhelming in the last two games when everything was on the line, and i do think it's a mental thing, he just needs to step up and show more guts there, zero excuse about being tired and other ****.

    But at the same time results drives everything in terms of narrative, and i'm really on the opposite side of how that works.

    Curry had multiple games disappearing and getting owned in his career, same for other players, but you see, Curry always had at least two all stars in their prime and an elite role player like Iguodala playing next to him, these guys saved him in multiple occasions, you just can't say the same for James.

    His best playoffs are last year playoffs imo, and that's not a coincidence since at the time he played with a healty Chris Paul looking like the real Chris Paul, Capela while not very effective was at least not playing like a freaking rookie out there. This season eh, Chris just wasn't good enough during the series, let's be honest, he was great in game 6, but in the previous games he looked washed as ****, couldn't literally dribble past anyone and commited multiple charges because he was forcing it to much, couldn't shoot to save his life, slow overall, making bad/forced passes...Clint played like a rookie, MDA has been terrible too in the last games...

    I don't even know how we've been so close to a game 7 tbh, especially considering game 1 rig job so, yeah, i'm all for criticize Harden, he really needs to be better in some situations, the way he turned the ball over those two times in the last minutes were screaming softness, but he didn't even enough help to get it done too, i think this is a fair take everything considered, we need a better roster, we need James to be better, and maybe, just maybe we need another coach, not even saying a better one, maybe just a different one.
     
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  15. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    But it is all narrative man. Lebron's run proved that to me.

    Lebron spent years being called a choker and passive and scared of the big moment because he'd pass it off to a guy and hoped they'd make the shot. Lebron would brick crucial free throws as well.

    If Tucker hits that crucial shot, if Harden's guys hit those shots guess what people are saying? Harden made the right play and trusted his teammates and they hit big shots.

    Dude, days ago you even were talking about how Harden was matching Durant and how the narrative is that Durant's the best player in the world but no one says that about Harden.

    Harden matches Durant's production and as long as the series is tied then the narrative is a lot easier for him.
     
  16. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    i was until i saw the results of the last two games. There's one part of the playoffs missing for me at this point. Until that part changes, I don't think anything will be different. believe me J, I don't want to be on that side but unfortunately ive just seen this far too often
     
  17. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Is Harden good enough to be on a championship team?

    I honestly don't care if he's the best player on the team or not. I don't understand why people care about that.

    Wade wasn't. Kobe wasn't. If the Rockets were to magically get Kawhi and he and Harden go on to win 2-3 rings do you really think the narrative was that Harden choked and isn't a championship player or would it be...now that Harden has more help he's a champion?

    The question you have to ask yourself is that one.

    Is Harden good enough to be on a championship team?

    That's the only question that matters.
     
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    LOL
    Man you just are reaching just to hate on a team and player that you are alledgedly a fan of

    Giannis getting 14 free throws a game

    Rocket River
     
  19. aliadiere25

    aliadiere25 Member

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    But can those other players pass the ball as well as Harden? No.

    Next thread.
     
  20. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Well I look at that now, because for me at this point, that's what it'll probably take to actually get a ship
     

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