Luck...watch your freaking tone you moronic drama queen. Maybe if you type in more capital letters, you can make your point come across more bluntly. Usually typing in all caps, is a good sign of the age or lack there of. You are absolutely incorrect in everyone of your assesments. I would NOT of complained if Clemens would of lost in game 6. Pitching Oswalt in game 7. Pitching Clemens on three days rest is a way better option then pitching Pete Munro in game 6. Giving Clemens and Oswalt your last two chances to win is a better option then Munro and Clemens every stinking time. If we walk Albert and Rolen homers, the Astros are still down the same number of runs as they ended up by not walking Albert. You walk the hottest hitter in baseball, someone who was hitting .500 in the series. Someone who was killing our pitching inside out. I would NOT of complained had Rolen then homered. Backe through 6 innings was pitching way more effectively then Clemens was. NUFF said. Im in fact not 35 a bit younger by half a decade, beats sounding like a Clutch City noob, that comes across as if he's what....14? And BTW. I didnt complain after the fact. I was complaining about not bunting during each at bat. I was wondering why not Clemens in game Six the second Munro was named the starter. I was confused the moment Micelli entered the game in the 12th inning for the big guns of the Cardinal offense of game Six. Save your capitol letters and basic stupidity for the ESPN boards.
It's all about execution. Ensberg had been hitting the ball decently, just not finding holes. Your scenario has flaws. 1.) Kent is not very fast to begin with...and late season he was even more hobbled by injury. 2.) Matheny is a gold glove catcher behind the plate. 3.) Ensberg in his career through college/minors/majors has been a guy who drives in runs. He's certainly not going to be Brett Butler bunting the ball. 4.) Your 7-8-9 is coming up. You want to leave it to Viz or Ausmus to drive in runs? Okay... With a guy not known for a bunting ability at the plate, a slow runner at first, a great defensive catcher behind the plate, and what has historically been an offensive black hole (Viz-Ausmus-pitcher), I can't blame Garner for that. I do agree as far as walking Pujols. You just don't let him beat you. On the flip side, I believe Roger had tremendous career numbers against Pujols and had never allowed him an XBH. Oops.
This is my take on it. Garner did a great job to get us where he did. The one thing that he lacked was playoff experience and we all knew that heading into the post season. We constantly say that he mis managed the bullpen, which is correct. The biggest thing in the playoffs for baseball is managment of your pitching rotation and making sure you are set up for the next game and series becuase there is no more days off really. That is where Garner lacked and it hurt us. Hey i am happy with what accomplished becuase in July none of us thought we would be here other than a hand full of fans like myself. I believed and am happy we got where we got. Everyone says it in any sports, experience is going to be a key factor in a series and in this one it was. Larussa knew what he was doing becuase he has been here before. He knew to suicide squeeze and other things like that. Managing a regular season is completly different than the post season and the number one reason is pitching. We didn't manage our pitchers well and it eventually came up to bite us in the butt simple as that.
DING DING DING! I can't see how some people even BLAME the pitching for the game 7 loss. I'm not sure the rationale behind not attacking our 3 hits instead of our pitching which surely wouldn't of held the cardinals lineup to a mere 2 runs.
Game 7 can not be blame on the pitchers one bit i will blame that one on the fact that we could not hit worth a damn. But at the same time i think a few of the games were lost becuase of mismanaged pitchers and Miceli......plain and simple.
It's bull****. Undeniably. The guy took a lifeless team and had them go 36-10 to get into the playoffs. You can go on and on about him being a motivator but lack baseball fundamentals, but a manager does not attain that kind of streak without knowing a thing or two about good baseball and without making some good moves. The proof is in the pudding. The fact is that we ran into a team that was playing better at the time. After the 36-10 press and going 5 games against ATL, this team was very tired.
Sure, I'll agree with that. Just talking about game 7 alone, no doubt earlier on in the series some pitching moves should of been made a little differently.
Gotta agree. I'm sure I missed a lengthy discussion about this, for which I apologize, but when Garner pulled Lidge for a pinch hitter in game 4 of the series against Atlanta, my wife had to tell me to control myself because of the kids. I was that astonished and pissed off. If I live to be a hundred years old, I'll never understand it, or agree that it was the right move. Maybe, just maybe, if he doesn't do that, we win game 4. I credit Garner with producing a miracle by getting us to the post-season. A ****ing miracle. Hell, I remember watching Phil play when he was with the team, and I love the guy. But I think he was out of his depth against La Russa. He learned a hell of a lot during the run to the make this all possible, and I have no doubt that he will look back on what he did in the two series against the Braves and the Cards, and wonder about what might have been, like the rest of us. I think he deserves to manage the team next year. There is no question about it. In my book, however, he is not blameless here. Hell, it's baseball. It was an incredible season. I'll calm down eventually.
Unbelievable the amount of homerism some people can demonstrate. This was a thread to mention a few big blunders by Garner. Its not impossible to think he made some stupid mistakes. He did, like I said some of his decisions went against BASIC rules of baseball. Instead of discussing it like I wanted, some of you go into Super Homer mode and attack with tiresome familiar crap. Some serious lack of knowledge being displayed here. If your not supposed to bunt a runner over 1 batter after the meat of your order, then when should you? During Carlos Beltrans at bat? Jeez. Garner made some idiotic moves. Moves that question weather he deserves a shot at managing this team for the next few years, because thats what were voting on here. Micelli decision after Micelli decision is enough to make me raise my eyebrows.
As I recall, the team hit 3/30 for the game and Phil Garner had ZERO at bats. You want to tell me that Kent should have been bunted to 2nd when he only, according to Thursday's stats, reached base once because of a walk. Instead of sitting there thinking about advance lightning fast Kent, maybe Kent should have thought about the hitting he didn't do. The offense last night was looking like they were trying to hit one out of the park in every at bat. Maybe you should focus on that. They gave it a good shot and we've gotten farther than we've ever been. Should we sit on our asses and just rest? No. But that doesn't mean we should forget the miracle run that the astros put on.
No, the fact is you tried to blast Garner for 'lack of baseball knowledge', and then several post why your stategy is flawed and why Garner made the moves he did. So you are dismissing everyone else's arguments but calling them "homerism" and lack of knowledge simply because they are pointing out flaws in your strategy. Because after all, you are a baseball god and never can be questioned.
I think Stack is right on the money. I agree with a lot of Dreamshake's points too, except for starting Clemens game 6 and Oswalt game 7. I think that would have really hurt our chances, with back to back games on short rest. And we almost won game 6 anyway, if only Garner would've utilized the bullpen a little better. You've got to bring in a lefty to face Edmonds, especially when you've got Dan Miceli out there. It's just my opinion, but Phil Garner severely limited our chances at winning every road game this series. Tony LaRussa outmanaged him. In games one and two, he pulled Munro and Backe too early...those are both very arguable either way, but I think he should've let them go a little longer. In game six, you've got to put a lefty on Edmonds. When one swing of the bat can end the game, you've got to play the percentages. In game seven, you just don't pitch to Pujols with the game on the line if you can avoid it. I honestly do not think that Scott Rolen hits that first pitch out of the park if you walk Pujols. I know we had one of the all-time greats on the mound, but even Clemens gets rattled sometimes. By walking Pujols, Clemens is still composed and you set up the potential double-play ball. That is called playing smart baseball. Phil Garner doesn't play smart baseball. It's great that Phil got us to the playoffs. I'd take him over Jimy Williams anyday, but he just isn't a great decision-maker. We may contend next year, but I don't think Phil will get us to the big show.
A few things worth noting. - Statistically, the odds of a runner scoring from first with 0 outs are better than scoring from 2nd with 1 out. - If Vizcaino hits Suppan so well, then perhaps LaRussa walks him to set up Ausmus and the DP (which he hits into as frequently as any other hitter in the NL). In addition, if Ausmus doesn't hit into a DP, and simply makes an out, then you are down to Clemens. The fact of the matter is that St. Louis pitched better in game 7 than Houston hit. Garner may have made some questionable moves throughout the series, but they weren't the reason the Cardinals won. St. Louis is simply the better team this year.
Well If Im a baseball god, then there are alot of them, because what I posed was BASIC freaking Baseball, and playing the percentages. What alot of others are posting are "How dare you doubt the man who brought us back" nonsense. 1. Both instances, you BUNT with Morgan up...no doubt about it. All it takes is the right kind of base hit and Kent scores. At least your playing the percentages. Your not taking a freaking 9 in 10 chance of getting and out with nothing to show for it as Morgans Average was dictating. Are you serious in saying that you wouldnt rather have Kent on second with one out and Viz, Aus, then pitcher up then Kent on first with a 9 out of 10 chance of him remaining there with One out? 2. YOU walk Pujols in that situation EVERY stinking time. No question about it. You cant hide from those two glaring mistakes. Those are about as baseball DUMB as it gets. I watched as Garner made some TERRIBLE Outright ridiculous decisions in the Braves series, and with Dan Micelli. Its not out of the question to think the man doesnt have enough to get a long term shot at this team as far as Im concerned.
Dreamshake, do you think that Garners moves were questionable? Don't you think that he made some basic baseball mistakes? What do you think of bunting and pitching to Pujols? Please tell us again because I dont think everyone here has gotten your point yet.
I'd say the previous three things you brought up are not basic baseball. I'm not saying they weren't questionable moves, but I don't see them as moves where he went agaisnt conventional baseball wisdom at least. I'd agree not giving Pujols much to hit is basic baseball. I'm not saying walk him, but give him something where he might expand the strike zone and make bad contact. Howver, I don't think the idea was to challenge Pujols. Pujols hit a tough pitch with a great swing. I don't think there was any problem with Clemen's approach to Pujols, he just a good swing on the ball. Pitching Clemens in Game 6 would have been bad basic baseball. Nearly every sports writer and 85% of the fans polled on ESPN thought Clemens was the correct decision. Basic baseball is putting your players in situations where they are most likely to succeed and Garner did that here. Clemens still looked OK after the Pujols at-bat. He's been outstanding at getting out of jams this entire season. He didn't look tired. Oswalt didn't look that amazing in relief anyway, so assuming Garner had some knowledge of Oswalts situation, I can't really say it was a terrible decision to leave in Clemens. If anything someone needed to be out there saying, whatever you do, calm down, make your pitches, and don't leave one up. Rolen had looked bad all series on breaking balls and stuff down. Clemens made the only really bad pitch he threw all night and Rolen made him pay. Unfortunate, but not really bad basic baseball.
I wanted to respond to this separately since I didn't want it to get lost in a larger post. Conventional baseball logic says you NEVER put the winning run on base with a free pass. Rob Neyer even said in the running chat that night, I hope Garner doesn't walk Pujols and put the winning run on base right now. If Rob Neyer is suggesting something, there is good reason to believe that it is not baseball as dumb as it gets.
