Mary was conceived in the traditional sense (her parents had intercourse). At the precise moment of conception God granted her the grace to be spared the "original" sin it is believed we are born with. Whether or not Mary sinned later in life is up for discussion. There is no mention in the Bible of specifics (although some may say that not ensuring your 12 year old is with you for a couple of days as you leave a town is a sin - or at least bad parenting ).
bobrek- you were close, here it is Leviticus 18:22 states the principle: “You [masculine] shall not lie-with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” The second (Lev. 20:13) adds the penalty: “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.”
Babies will go to Heaven. King David said that he would see his day(s) old baby that died in Heaven after his death. But the Bible also says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Most would then summerize, though it is not written, that there is a point of understanding. The baby would be born into sin but could not understand and therefore God's grace through Jesus "automatically" paid the price for him/her.
3fingeredgus- while I'm not a biblical scholar on anything and I don't have any official church proclamation to quote from I'm sure babies are not condemned to hell; although, I'm not sure what the church's official position is concerning pre-baptismal (is that a word) death. On that same track, baptism officially "gets you into the church" and after reading that thing I quoted it says baptism removes original sin from your soul. And about not being able to fully accept Christ until you are older, that's what confirmation is for. Although I don't think Protestants have confirmation (just baptism and communion for y'all right-or have books misinformed me) so I'm not sure about Protestants. I guess we'll have to wait for one to answer.
Wow, so many good topics. I'm going to stick with Manny's for now. (and I'll abstain from quoting the Bible right now for length's sake.) To me, you are refering to revenge. God tells us that vengence is His alone and not our right to worry about it. You want them to pay the consequences now, but try to think in terms of eternity. Patience is a virtue, as is forgiveness. God's mercy allows everyone a chance to repent for their sins, but only as long as they're still living in this world.
Is anyone else having problems posting? I have twice produced thorough, well-thought out and researched replies, typed them in, only to never see them. These particular posts would so thoroughly convince everyone to become Christian (and Catholic in particular) that there wouldn't be enough ministers to perform all of the Baptisms. Unfortunately, that type of inspired writing can not be duplicated so I have to go with the following: In a nutshell, Christians believe that all are born with the "original sin" committed by Adam and Eve. Through Baptism, we are cleansed from that sin and start anew. I will try and locate a more detailed explanation for you tonight.
are muslims, jews, and all other religions damned to hell for not accepting jesus as there savior? I just wanted to ask because i was not sure
THE BREESE: Here is the Catholic Church doctrine regarding your question: 'Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by his grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation'
And here is what the Bible says: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 1:17-20 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
According to the Bible, those who confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts that God raised Him from the dead - you will be saved. If there was another way to heaven, wouldn't God just tell us and not send His son to die on a cross? It's an amazing love to send His only son to die on a cross for sinners. Too amazing for me to understand, but I do believe.
FYI, "Love your enemy" pre-dates Christianity. It was becoming common in many Hellenistic philosophies...one such being the Cynics who said, "when one is being flogged like an ass, he must love the men who flog him."
.....I maintain that the Son of God was born; why am I not ashamed of maintaining such a thing? Why! but because it is itself a shameful thing. I maintain that the Son of God died: well, that is wholly credible because it is monstrously absurd. I maintain that after having been buried, he rose again: and that I take to be absolutely true, because it was manifestly impossible. -Tertullian
I don't know for sure, but the Bible says the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. As far as Jews - they are God's chosen people and have a different plan laid out for them. The only part of the New Testament that specifically deals with Jews (as far as prophecies, etc) is Revelations. I actually read a great book by Hal Lindsey (who I don't always believe everything he says), entitled "The Rapture". It deals with the differences between God's relationship with mankind in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. It also deals with what role the Jews are to play during the time of Revelations. After reading the book, and talking about it with my dad, and praying, I decided that most of what he wrote about was in fact true. Some of the things in the book were not. But, taken as a whole, it shed a lot of light on some things I had questions about Christianity. As far as other religions, again I can't say for sure because I'm not God, but you know what the Bible says. However, it's not like Christianity has some fanatically different view of this. Muslims don't think Christians are going to Heaven either. Each religion thinks that they are the only way to true salvation. It'd be nice if the truth were that God only wanted us to believe that He did exist. That way anyone who wasn't an athiest would get into Heaven. But, very few people believe that to be the way it is. I can only go by whay I believe, and what I believe is the Bible.
I can tell you from the Episcopal Church, that all infants that die are automatically in Heaven. I grew up in a Methodist church and was baptised as an infant; however, it wasn't until I was 16 that I officially "joined" the church. Other denominations would call this getting saved and some refer to it as a baptism even though you have already been baptised as an infant. Yet, this is different because this time you do not have to rely on others to speak for you. Now, I can tell you that Episcopalians go through confirmation (become a communicant within the Episcopal Church) and we are Protestant. We are closer to Catholics than any other Protestant group. Some of the differences between Catholics and Episcopalians include the following: 1) We have a bishop but he is a figure head for our diocese or our district. The vestry or council of elders make all the main decisions for the local church and there is a convention that meets every few years to decide things for the entire diocese that consists of delegates from different churches within the diocese. 2) We do not have a formal confession where we meet the priest in a room and confess our sins. We have a general confession every Sunday right after reciting the Nicean Creed. 3) Our priests can marry and there can be women priests and even women bishops. 4) We take Holy Communion or Holy Eucharist every Sunday and we use real wine; however, unlike Catholics we welcome any baptised Christian to partake in our Communion. I know about the Catholic stance on this because I have been to a Catholic church before and they tell you that if you are not Catholic then you can't partake in their Communion. 5) Our service follows the BCP or the Book of Common Prayer. This is the spiritual guide along with the Bible for every Episcopalian. Being to a Catholic church before I saw many similarities with my Episcopal church; however, another difference is that at the Catholic church, when you first enter, you can dip your hands into a bowel of holy water and the Catholic church has more religious icons and symbols inside the Church than the Episcopal church. Also, unfortunately, the Episcopal church has waffled on some outside issues unlike the Catholic church including abortion and homosexuality. The first thing that I remember about my first time at the Episcopal Church was that many people were making the sign of the cross and there was a lot of bowing. Also, the service was very structured but elaborate and tradition plays a huge role in the Episcopal church. I can see how it can be hard to get used to it if you have never been to it or a Catholic church or even a Lutheran church. However, I am the happiest I have ever been and I will always go to an Episcopalian church so much that I'm not going to marry unless my future wife is an Episcopalian or is willing to become one.
That is my main problem with being a believer. I am not willing to say that a muslim is wrong or a jew is wrong. How can one person burn in the christian hell why he is in some other heaven?
Don't forget to ask how someone can burn in the Muslim hell, while they are in the Christian Heaven. Well, that's obviously not possible. There are a few realistic scenarios We are all wrong, there is no God We are all wrong, there is a God, but he accepts anyone who believes in Him One religion is right, the rest are wrong Some religions are right, some are wrong If we are all wrong, then who cares, after we die, we're worm food. If we're all wrong and all believers go to Heaven, then great (well, except for those who don't believe in a god). The problems arise out of the last two possibilities. All religions rely on faith. Faith goes much further than just a belief. It is part of you in more than a physical or mental way. When you become a Christian you have a personal link to Christ. You can talk to God. All of your sins can be forgiven. As a religion is gives the most freedom to its followers, but it is steadfast in its one demand, that you believe in Jesus. I mean, when you break Christianity down to see what the basis is, that's all it really is. At its essence, it is the freest, simplest, most forgiving religion there is (IMO).
Manny -- I'm so glad you asked that...I haven't even read the other replies yet, I was so anxious to respond. My faith has grown in leaps and bounds since Tuesday...but it wasn't easy....of course, it rarely is. I emailed my pastor on Wednesday. I said I know that Christ taught that when you have hate in your heart you've become a murderer in the eyes of the Lord. I asked him to pray for me. He pointed me to the imprecatory Psalms where David specifically called on God to deliver awful deaths to his enemies. It gets pretty ugly. I thought he was crazy!!! I thought I would harbor in all those hate feelings and that it would make it worse. But I think what I learned is that those feelings are really natural...and there are men who've had very intimate, intense relationships with God who've felt the exact same way I felt. And God didn't say, "wow..you're a sick dude...don't talk to me again!!" Instead He responded with love, saying, "I want you to tell me how you feel...I'm your Creator and I love you..." It helped me to know that others have been in my shoes. Having said that...He's also plainly shown me the difference between revenge and justice. Vengeance is the Lord's...but if your heart is right with God, you do seek out justice...you crave it. Sometimes God works his justice through people in our time...many times He works justice, and eventually His vengeance, out in His own time. I heard a rabbi say the other day that he believed that God worked justice through the Allied forces in WWII. That's seeing God's justice in our time and space. The spirit of revenge leads man to hate....I don't believe the spirit of justice leads to hate in man. And remember too that Paul says we fight not against men, but against principalities. There is evil in this world (despite what college professors want to tell you, there is more than just your perspective on "what's right to you"). We fight against that. The key is being able to move on in peace. I'm not certain I'm at a point yet where I can pray sincerely for mercy for those who did this attack. I pray that God will help to work that out in me. I'll pray for you too, Manny...you for me as well? But I've grown closer to God, no doubt. And I have seen the evidence that God works for good in all things, as Christ promises...even in the midst of something as terrible as this. I've seen people band together...I've seem families in my church strengthen...I've seen people spending hour upon hour tireless searching for survivors.
