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'Soldiers' gear up to defend Christmas?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Dec 14, 2005.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. -- 'Tis the season to fight folly.
    Troops are massed on the ground floor of a nondescript, green-glassed building that's become ground zero for an annual campaign to defend Christmas.
    The "soldiers" lined up for the fight are 832 lawyers ready to charge any municipality or public school that dares excise the mention or observance of the world's most widely celebrated holiday.
    A framed poster near the entrance asks: "Have you ever experienced discrimination because you are a Christian?" It hints at the philosophical bent of the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), a Christian legal group based here.
    The phones are busy in Scottsdale. The first week of December alone brought in 159 calls from around the country for legal advice on everything from protecting creches at city hall to what to do when a school in Wisconsin changes the first line of "Silent Night" to "Cold in the night, no one in sight."
    The ADF is not alone. The Rev. Jerry Falwell recently started a "Friend or Foe Christmas campaign," offering the free services of 700 lawyers with the Liberty Counsel of Orlando, Fla., ready to file suit over any holiday infringements.
    Earlier this month, the newly formed Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation held a press conference calling on American Jews to defend Christians' right to say "Merry Christmas" and to celebrate openly the birth of Jesus Christ.
    "Christmas is disappearing," Don Feder, the group's president, says. "It's disappearing from our culture at an alarming rate, disappearing from stores, disappearing from schools and disappearing from the public square."
    The ADF says it's been aware of the trend since its founding 12 years ago by 30 Christian organizations.
    Two Minnesota cases were what drew the attention of Joseph Infranco, the ADF's senior vice president. One involved two girls who were suspended in 1999 from a middle school in Rochester for wearing red-and-green scarves and saying "Merry Christmas" in a school video. The other case involved Ramsey County Courthouse in St. Paul, which in 2001 banned red poinsettias for being a religious symbol.
    "We looked at each other one day and said, 'It's a sad, sad day in America when you have to retain an attorney to say Merry Christmas,' " Mr. Infranco says.
    What's helped the ADF grow from $400,000 in gross revenues in 1993 to $17 million today is its annual "Christmas project," which enlists lawyers around the country to take up cases where Christmas is under attack.
    But first these lawyers had to be trained.
    "There's a litigious component to our culture wars," says Jeffery Ventrella, an ADF vice president. "You can't just have a good-hearted lawyer. You have to be a good-hearted, skilled lawyer."
    In 1997, the ADF began its "national litigation academies." In weeklong sessions, legal experts coach attorneys on the concepts of religious freedom, parental rights, the First Amendment and equal access.
    The ADF pays all expenses. According to its 2004 tax return, the group spent $4.8 million training 80 law students and 120 attorneys last year.
    The 832 lawyers who have attended the academies agree to donate 450 hours, which at $175 an hour clocks out at $65 million worth of pro-bono time.
    In 2003, the ADF took on a dozen Christmas-related cases. Officials at the organization said they were amazed to see that, in many cases, all that was needed was a "demand letter" to school or municipal officials.
    "Half the battle is showing up," Mr. Ventrella says. "You have to saddle up and show up or you lose. We're winning 75 percent of the cases we're showing up at. And if you set a precedent, it's the gift that keeps on giving."
    In 2004, the ADF sent more than 6,700 letters to school districts and cities, informing local officials that the U.S. Constitution does not forbid public celebrations of Christmas. Christmas carols may be sung in school; it's constitutional to refer to the December break as a "Christmas holiday"; the right of teachers and students to say "Merry Christmas" is protected by the First Amendment.
    The ADF also assures local officials that the religious origins of Christmas may be studied in school and that students may express religious viewpoints in clothing, reading materials and school assignments.
    Other advice: Schools may display religious symbols if there's an educational reason for doing so. Cities may sponsor religious displays on public property if there is a secular purpose, such as celebrating a holiday or depicting its origins.
    "When you take a creche out of a public square that's been there 80 [to] 90 years, you send the message there's something wrong with that display," Mr. Infranco says. "And by removing that display, you change the culture. For instance, how many public school districts still call the Christmas holiday its 'Christmas break?' Almost nowhere."
    Reaction to the ADF was swift, he adds.
    "It was amazing the extent of hostility by organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union or Americans United for Separation of Church and State, who were the tail wagging the dog," he says. "We knew that 96 percent of Americans celebrate Christmas, and they were being held hostage by these extremist groups."
    Americans United spokes- man Rob Boston calls the ADF "a powerful group."
    "I think the ADF is interested in moving this country toward an officially Christian state by knocking down the wall of separation between church and state," he says.
    Within nearly 17,000 school districts in the United States, "a handful of incidents a year does now show a systemwide bias against Christianity," he says. "It does show some people in the school system do not understand the law."
    This year, the ADF sent out letters to more than 10,000 school districts and hundreds of cities across the country, warning them to not curtail legal Christmas observances. Its Web site, www.saychristmas.org, posts legal victories to date.
    "We hope citizens will take the holiday back," Mr. Infranco says. "They can go to city hall and say, 'We had a creche here five years ago. What happened to it? We want it back.' "

    http://washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20051214-124822-6606r

    Is there a war on Christmas? Why is there a war on Christmas? How are these people making so much money? :eek:
     
  2. IROC it

    IROC it Contributing Member

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    I've asked the Christians at my church to not get caught up in the "cultural war" that is going on right now. I see it as counter productive to the cause.
     
  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Who is waging this war?
     
  4. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    It seems the only ones waging this war are the evangelicals.
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    The so called war on Christmas is pretty funny.

    Here are some interesting info about the so called 'war on Christmas'

    This is from the same website. Though it does reference the MSNC show Countdown.

    The funny thing about that one is that after they were caught FOX then reversed their decorations and changed it to Christmas ornament. They had the 'holiday' ornament responding to pressure from nobody. It is hilarious.

    Then O'Reilly continuing his imaginary war mentioned that a School in Plano Texas wouldn't allow students to wear Red or Green because it was associated with Christmas. The Principle then had to send out letters stating that it was alright, and has asked O'Reilly for a retraction because it wasn't true at all. They mentioned some company doing the same thing, and a representative from tha company did an interview wearing a Christmas tie, and was explaining that people were definitely allowed to wear red or green.

    There is no war on Christmas.
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    Nope! Just another diversionary tactic to divide and conquer.
     
  7. TMac640

    TMac640 Contributing Member

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    anyone that opposes the use of Christmas should be shot.
     
  8. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    "And it has become pretty general. Last Christmas most people had a hard time finding Christmas cards that indicated in any way that Christmas commemorated Someone's Birth. Easter they will have the same difficulty in finding Easter cards that contain any suggestion that Easter commemorates a certain event. There will be rabbits and eggs and spring flowers, but a hint of the Resurrection will be hard to find. Now, all this begins with the designers of the cards."

    Henry Ford
    The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem
    1921


    "Even Jewish people like Christmas."

    Bill O'Reilly
    The O'Reilly Factor
    Dec 1st, 2004



    "Well, what I'm tellin' you, [caller], is I think you're takin' it too seriously. You have a predominantly Christian nation. You have a federal holiday based on the philosopher Jesus. And you don't wanna hear about it? Come on, [caller] -- if you are really offended, you gotta go to Israel then."

    Bill O'Reilly, speaking to Jewish caller
    The Radio Factor
    Dec 7th, 2004



    "You know it's an amazing thing -- this is a Christian country, it's founded by Christians, Christmas is one of our great celebrations. It's been a time of joy for our people for many years, and not only us, but now they're picking up Christmas in Japan, picking it up in China. It's something that has blessed the world. And if people don't like America and the traditions that made America great, let them go to Saudi Arabia, let them go to Pakistan. Yeah, they can go to the Sudan and find a wonderful Muslim holiday."

    Pat Robertson
    700 Club
    Dec 23, 2004



    "When we began the Christmas season this year, we were all very much aware that a war was being waged by the Christmas grinches -- the American Civil Liberties Union [ACLU], Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and other secularists, to steal Christmas from America. To not only take Christ out of Christmas, but to remove Christmas totally from the American scene. I am happy to announce today that we are winning the Christmas war. [...]

    We have declared war on the left, and we're going to sue the hide off of everybody, everybody, who tries to inhibit the liberties of our children and our families from worshipping and honoring the Lord, as we in America are constitutionally allowed to do."

    Jerry Falwell
    televised sermon
    Dec 19th, 2004




    "This case, really, talks about the essence of Christmas. Christmas is still constitutional. What happened in this case, it appears, is that the mayor had absolute hostility toward the religious, specifically the Christian, viewpoint of the nativity scene. In this case, the mayor was persistent over several months. The city council cancelled meetings, walked out when this issue came up, in fact, the mayor-- [(BRIGITTE QUINN): Mat, why was he hostile?] Well, the mayor is apparently Jewish. Unfortunately, this looks like the mayor's particular vendetta against the nativity scene.


    Mathey Staver, Liberty Counsel
    Fox News Live
    Dec 16th, 2004



    "Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. It's not a secret, OK? [...] Hollywood likes anal sex. They like to see the public square without nativity scenes."

    William Donahue, The Catholic League
    Scarborough Country, MSNBC
    Dec 8th, 2004



    "I recently picked up a newspaper and saw George Bush lighting a Jewish Menorah erected in the White House. I stopped for a moment and said to myself, "Somethings wrong with this picture. Isn't this the same White house forbidden to erect a cross or even the traditional manger scene at Christmastime.

    Jewish writers define the Hanukkah celebration as one to encourage resistance to assimilation among Gentiles, a battle as vital today as the one that went on 2000 years ago. The word Hellenization is just a substitute word for Americanization. You see, everyone else in the world that comes to America is supposed to be quote, "Americanized," everyone of course except the Jews. For them we are supposed to say isn't it great that they want to maintain their separateness and not merge into the great melting of races and creeds in America! Of course melting pots aren't always what they are cracked up to be. Problem with melting pots is that the bottom often gets burned and the scum usually rises to the top.

    How are these double standards maintained without any outcry? In truth the double standards that we witness every day in our nation reveal the extent of Jewish power and influence over our media, government and culture. [...] Unless that Jewish-supremacist power over America is broken our heritage and freedom will not survive."

    David Duke
    Christmas and Hannukkah: Double Standards for America!
    Nov. 30, 2004



    "There is an active campaign to destroy Christianity altogether, along with all its paraphernalia, the most obvious of which is...Christmas, of course. And the campaign is organized, financed and run by...Jews, of course. We all know about the lawsuit to remove 'under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance. Filed by a Jew. Remember the lawsuit to remove the Ten Commandments from the courthouse foyer, then to remove the judge who put it there? Filed by Jews. Remember the lawsuit last year to force New York public schools to take down colored lights? Filed by Jews. Remember the huge Jewish uproar about Mel Gibson's movie "The Passion of the Christ"? That backfired badly for Abe Foxman and company, but was a piece of the overall strategy to deChristianize America. It's a Jewish strategy, of course. That's why the lawsuits are all brought by Jews."

    Edgar Steele
    Dec 16th, 2004
    Vangard News Network
     
  9. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    ACLU, aka Anti-Christian Liberals United.
     
  10. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    edit:nevermind
     
  11. Mulder

    Mulder Contributing Member

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    Cal Thomas -

    In other words, nothing to see here but WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRACTION. If you care about this you've missed the point of Christmas COMPLETELY.
     
  12. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    The problem with the logic of the right is that the decrease in "christmas" references comes not from the radical left that seeks to destroy christmas but rather from consumer demand that has essentially demanded more secular items and references in modern culture. The general public isn't out protesting the lack of christmas references. Instead its an isolated group of evangelicals and right wing conservatives. Stores are always going to cut back on christmas specific products if consumers aren't buying those products.

    This "war on christmas" argument is nonsensical. If you're "winning" the war, then stores and tv will start bringing back more christmas specific items in response to growing consumer demand. Well that hasn't happened. There simply is no argument.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    why don't you just say "ACL-jew"? that's what you meant.
     
  14. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    actually, it's not.
     
  15. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    Then explain yourself, for a change.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    This has been one of my favorite stories in the media lately. There is nothing funnier than seeing folks trying to stir up trouble about an issue that doesn't really exist.

    I would love to see some more examples of that kind thing. It never gets old for me.
     
  17. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    only that the ACLU takes a pretty dim view of any mention of christmas in a public setting.
     
  18. Mulder

    Mulder Contributing Member

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    How The ACLU Didn't Steal Christmas (12/7/2005)

    By Fran Quigley
    Fran Quigley, Executive Director, Indiana Civil Liberties Union

    When the angry phone calls and emails started arriving at the office, I knew the holiday season was upon us. A typical message shouted that we at the American Civil Liberties Union are "horrible" and "we should be ashamed of ourselves," and then concluded with an incongruous and agitated "Merry Christmas."

    We get this type of correspondence a lot, mostly in reaction to a well-organized attempt by extremist groups to demonize the ACLU, crush religious diversity, and make a few bucks in the process. Sadly, this self-interested effort is being promoted in the guise of defending Christmas.

    For example, the Alliance Defense Fund celebrates the season with an "It's OK to say Merry Christmas" campaign, implying that the ACLU has challenged such holiday greetings. (As part of the effort, you can get a pamphlet and two Christmas pins for $29.)
    The website WorldNetDaily touts a book claiming "a thorough and virulent anti-Christmas campaign is being waged today by liberal activists and ACLU fanatics." The site's magazine has suggested there will be ACLU efforts to remove "In God We Trust" from U.S. currency, fire military chaplains, and expunge all references to God in America's founding documents. (Learn more for just $19.95 . . . )

    Of course, there is no "Merry Christmas" lawsuit, nor is there any ACLU litigation about U.S. currency, military chaplains, etc. But the facts are not important to these groups, because their real message is this: By protecting the freedom of Muslims, Jews, and other non-Christians through preventing government entanglement with religion, the ACLU is somehow infringing on the rights of those with majority religious beliefs.

    In truth, it is these website Christians who are taking the Christ out of the season. Nowhere in the Sermon on the Mount did Jesus Christ ask that we celebrate His birth with narrow-mindedness and intolerance, especially for those who are already marginalized and persecuted. Instead, the New Testament—like the Torah and the Koran and countless other sacred texts—commands us to love our neighbor, and to comfort the sick and the imprisoned.

    That's what the ACLU does. We live in a country filled with people who are sick and disabled, people who are imprisoned, and people who hunger and thirst for justice. Those people come to our Indiana offices for help, at a rate of several hundred a week, usually because they have nowhere else to turn. The least of our brothers and sisters sure aren't getting any help from the Alliance Defense Fund or WorldNet Daily. So, as often as we can, ACLU secures justice for those folks who Jesus worried for the most.

    As part of our justice mission, we work hard to protect the rights of free religious expression for all people, including Christians. For example, we recently defended the First Amendment rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets in southern Indiana. The ACLU intervened on behalf of a Christian valedictorian in a Michigan high school, which agreed to stop censoring religious yearbook entries, and supported the rights of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at their school.

    There are many more examples, because the ACLU is committed to preserving the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom for all. We agree with the U.S. Supreme Court's firm rulings that this freedom means that children who grow up in non-Christian homes should not be made to feel like outsiders in their own community's courthouse, legislature or public schoolhouse.

    To our "Merry Christmas" correspondents and all other Hoosiers, we wish you happy holidays.

    Fran Quigley is executive director of the Indiana Civil Liberties Union, www.iclu.org. As of January 1, 2006, the organization is changing its name to ACLU of Indiana. link

    ACLU's Defense of Religious Liberty (3/2/2005)

    The right of each and every American to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all, is among the most fundamental of the freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. The Constitution's framers understood very well that religious liberty can flourish only if the government leaves religion alone.

    The American Civil Liberties Union has a long history of working to ensure that religious liberty is protected. From the famous 1920 Scopes trial-in which the ACLU challenged a Tennessee law prohibiting the teaching of evolution in schools-to the current Ten Commandments case before the Supreme Court, the ACLU remains committed to keeping the government out of the religion business and protecting every American's right to believe as he or she wishes.

    Recent ACLU involvement in religious liberty cases include:

    September 20, 2005: ACLU of New Jersey joins lawsuit supporting second-grader's right to sing "Awesome God" at a talent show.

    August 4, 2005: ACLU helps free a New Mexico street preacher from prison.

    May 25, 2005: ACLU sues Wisconsin prison on behalf of a Muslim woman who was forced to remove her headscarf in front of male guards and prisoners.

    February 2005: ACLU of Pennsylvania successfully defends the right of an African American Evangelical church to occupy a church building purchased in a predominantly white parish.

    December 22, 2004: ACLU of New Jersey successfully defends right of religious expression by jurors.

    December 14, 2004: ACLU joins Pennsylvania parents in filing first-ever challenge to "Intelligent Design" instruction in public schools.

    November 20, 2004: ACLU of Nevada supports free speech rights of evangelists to preach on the sidewalks of the strip in Las Vegas.

    November 12, 2004: ACLU of Georgia files a lawsuit on behalf of parents challenging evolution disclaimers in science textbooks.

    November 9, 2004: ACLU of Nevada defends a Mormon student who was suspended after wearing a T-shirt with a religious message to school.

    August 11, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska defends church facing eviction by the city of Lincoln.

    July 10, 2004: Indiana Civil Liberties Union defends the rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets.

    June 9, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska files a lawsuit on behalf of a Muslim woman barred from a public pool because she refused to wear a swimsuit.

    June 3, 2004: Under pressure from the ACLU of Virginia, officials agree not to prohibit baptisms on public property in Falmouth Waterside Park in Stafford County.

    May 11, 2004: After ACLU of Michigan intervened on behalf of a Christian Valedictorian, a public high school agrees to stop censoring religious yearbook entries.

    March 25, 2004: ACLU of Washington defends an Evangelical minister's right to preach on sidewalks.

    February 21, 2003: ACLU of Massachusetts defends students punished for distributing candy canes with religious messages.

    October 28, 2002: ACLU of Pennsylvania files discrimination lawsuit over denial of zoning permit for African American Baptist church.

    July 11, 2002: ACLU supports right of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at school.

    April 17, 2002: In a victory for the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the ACLU of Virginia, a federal judge strikes down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating.

    January 18, 2002: ACLU defends Christian church's right to run "anti-Santa" ads in Boston subways.

    http://www.aclu.org/religion/tencomm/16254res20050302.html
     
  19. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    Actually, we call them Anti-Christians Lawyers Union :D
     
  20. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    All I can say is thank God there's someone out there defending Christmas. Thank you ADF.
     

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