when the suspensions and fines come will you finally give up this stupid fight? serious question. they cheated oh well, everyone does it but we just got caught. The Red Sox got caught and we got caught.
issue here is the onslaught smear campaign from MSM against our organization. That's why we're all frustrated by this. Boston cheats, NYC & Chicago have players with domestic abuse issues yet the Astros are apparently everything wrong with baseball
When there is hard evidence the Astros cheated during the 2017 postseason, I’ll gladly give up this fight. Until then, no, I won’t. Also, the fact there’s evidence they cheated during the 2017 regular season doesn’t prove they did so in the postseason. It’s not a good look, for sure, but one is not proof of the other. Also, the fight is not stupid. The national media has now tarnished the best moment in franchise history without any physical evidence to support the accusation. You want to make such a claim, you better have hard evidence to back it up. Right now, they don’t.
Why? Once you're caught cheating, you kind of lose the presumption of innocence. It's like saying since we only have proof that A-Rod and Bonds used steroids one time whenever they tested positive, so we need to assume the rest of his career was squeaky clean. This whole story is bizarre to me... too many details for it to be made up; too many people corroborating it. Lots of weird blaming of Mike Fiers for simply tellling the truth. If we had a player that was previously on the Nationals or Yankees and knew they were stealing signs or whatever, I'd hope they'd share it with our team so we could adjust. For all the "everyone does it" talk, there seem to be no specifics with anyone else - it's like lumping Bagwell into the steroids group because "everyone did it". Lunhow's statement about investigating it is just kind of hilarious - if the Astros were doing it, he and AJ and everyone else knew about it. You can't really hide something on that scale. On the flipside, the Astros didn't seem to be any better at home (worse, in a lot of cases), so it doesn't seem like it helped much. And using single pitch or at-bat videos as "proof" of stuff is going down a ridiculous rabbit hole as well. All around, it seems like the Astros did it to me. They got caught, unlike anyone else. They'll probably get rightly punished. And then we'll all move on.
This is just too much. **** news https://www.foxnews.com/sports/yu-darvish-apologies-astros-cheating-allegations-surface https://www.foxnews.com/sports/yankees-aaron-judge-brian-cashman-astros-cheating-2017
If Beltran & Gattis were the only ones using this tactic at home games. Why should our entire team get thrown in the dumpster? Ridiculous
There’s a big difference between losing the presumption of innocence and actually being found guilty of the crime. If the media is going to accuse a MLB team of cheating to win a World Series, they need to have hard evidence of them cheating during the series in question. Right now, they don’t. The standard to prove this accusation should be physical proof the Astros cheated at any point during the 2017 postseason. Until that surfaces, this accusation is plausible because of other evidence, but, ultimately, baseless at this point and time. Imagine if our justice system functioned the way you described. Sir, because you were found guilty of murder years ago, and your DNA is at a current crime scene but not on the victim or the murder weapon, you are guilty of this new crime. If you were the person’s defense attorney, you would have a field day with that.
Fine, Fiers "told the truth." But... Why did Mike Fiers wait two years? Why not report it while it was going on? Why did Mike Fiers accept a tainted championship ring from a team that's "not playing the game the right way?" Is Fiers gonna police himself? Pine tar? Really? You want to "clean up the game" and "play the game the right way", maybe get your own house in order first. "I mean, you can try to pick out a lot of things through a lot of games," Fiers said Saturday. "I don't know what they are talking about. It could be a different lighting or camera angle or a lot of things. I don't know."
I didn’t bother to read the whole article but why are ppl apologizing to Darvish for tipping his pitches? That’s his stupid ass problem.
I too want some more evidence before I think it conclusive the Astros cheated in this fashion. At least to the extent that MLB starts fining guys and taking away draft picks. Further, I have no problem with Fiers sharing this with his new team. Going to the media though is, well, ungrateful for one thing. More run support during his starts helps him get wins, which helps him get a better job. Also, let's say the Astros did this. And chose such an inefficient, Byzantine method for conveying the info to the batter. Why on Earth would they share it with the pitching staff? Especially as transient as pitching jobs tend to be in MLB. But with your criminal justice example, I'd want to know how the accused's DNA managed to find its way to the crime scene, and I'd lose a lot of my reasonable doubt about his guilt until he could explain how it got there.
Basically it's just Twitter bull****. Fans who berated him now giving him victim treatment. The second article with unnamed yank claiming they were better team and may have lost bc of it ticked me off. This stuff impacts the perception of our org to casual fans
Perception does outweigh fact often. But in this case, the Astros have done a terrible job getting out in front of any of it. If they released statements outlining what they did and didnt do as the news was spreading, then they could have had a shot at controlling the narrative. As things are, because they didnt do that, it gives the perception they are hiding something. Vague denials are not going to remove this stain anytime soon.
All of the above is reasonable. However, my point with the example was while the available evidence does suggest it’s plausible he or she committed the crime, it’s not enough for a conviction, yet. If evidence shows that the Astros illegally stole signs during the 2017 postseason, MLB should throw the book at them. Right now, that evidence doesn’t exist.
For starters, they could expose other teams that did the same thing that they did. Of course, do it in a way that doesn't track back to us Maybe remind people that Taubman was fired immediately and decisively?
