So many of the 51.6% still want Francis to have the ball for the last shot?

I like to be positive, but it is really hard when the Rockets blow 2 games like this in the middle of a playoff run.

Here's something positive...Dream could be back on Tuesday.



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Payton can still hold anybody when he's into the game.I know you saw him embarass Cuttino in the first with that travel he caused.

I agree on the help D.The Sonics played great help D on penetration. I wish the Rockets played help D like they do. I can't even count the number of time the Sonics slapped the ball away from our players. Then again the Rockets would probably get called for fouls, knowing the Rockets history with refs.

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I just want to post it in this thread too. Steve was NOT fouled. It was a clean block. I was only seven rows away, and I could see very clearly. It was a good blocked shot, and a bad play by Steve.

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Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.

 

Hey ZRB, wheres your johnny-on-the-spot report?? I would really like to read a court-side report..


The loss tonite was a team loss, yes Steve shouldn't have missed that layup..but the Rox had absolutely no sense of urgency or any real extended hustle tonite...
Specially Cato.. I was cussing him all nite..
How depressing..

Even makes a sunshine-ass homer like me think negative thoughts....

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OK heypartner..are ya happy now??
I'm no longer "living in the past"

 

Here it is:
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/012122.html

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Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.

 

Exactly cato13. Mobley is just is just as important to this team as Steve is. They both contribute in their own way. And as much as I like Steve (hell, that is why my moniker is what it is), the Rockets have a much larger investment in Cat right now than Steve. There is no guaruntee that Steve will resign with the Rockets when his contract runs out, and we have Cat for 5 more season if we want him.

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"Any event, once it has occurred, can be made to appear inevitable by a competent historian."
Lee Simonson

[This message has been edited by RunninRaven (edited March 25, 2001).]

 

No actually Steve shoots 45% from the field. He shoots better than Cat from the field, from the free throw line, and from the 3 point line. Francis scores more points, has more assists, more rebounds, more steals, and more blocks. He's also a few years younger than Cat. They are not equally valuable to our team. Francis is a cornerstone type player, Mobley is simply a good player.

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"You have to think optimistic. I think it's never over till it's over." - Clyde Drexler after losing at home to go down 3-1 to the Suns in '95

 

Timing, I ran the stats. Cuttino is on pace to pass Francis in scoring since becoming a starter...According to statistical projection of the last 42 games, Cuttino catches and passes Francis...sorry dude if it happens. Plus, Cuttino will end up making the same amount of baskets on 40 more shots. wow, big difference there. Cuttino is clearly a better FT shooter. Francis has a 90% anomaly at the beginning of the season. Over the last 40 games he is shooting 81%, while Cat is shooting 88%. Cat has proven he's the better FT shooter for 3 seasons vs Steve's one 90% stretch for 25 games...wow Steve, keep it up?

Right now, Cuttino is every bit the superstar in the making that Steve is, according to your stats. Now, let's throw in Rudy's stats....Starting with Mobley's 60% success rate that the Rocket's coaches are tracking.

Why not praise Cuttino as much as Francis? They both have superstar potential. Cuttino is a better pure scorer and is starting to show up with more tenacious defense. Francis has the better turnaround jumper and court vision.

Don't Believe the Hype

 

Excuse me I have checked my stats. According to NBA.com last night when I made my post, through 67 games Francis was shooting 45%. Clearly as I stated, Francis is leading Cat in every category I mentioned. I notice you also left out assists where Francis has a very large advantage. And though you point out games started you failed to point out minutes played which, especially with Rudy as coach, is much more important than who starts a game. Francis plays 40 minutes/game while Cat plays 38 minutes/game.

You also failed to mention that Cat has been in the league a year longer than Steve which is significant when you consider how much Francis has improved from year 1 to year 2.

There are all kinds of ways to twist statistics with "anomalies". I could say the reason Cat scores so much is because Rudy actively isolates him so much. Then you could say Rudy isolates him because he's successful 60% of the time. Then I'll point out how Rudy stuck with him when he wasn't quite so successful in the past. He kept giving Cat the ball even when he stunk it up which has helped Cat build up enormous confidence. Francis hasn't had the same opportunities to feature his game that Cat has had for the last 3 years.

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"You have to think optimistic. I think it's never over till it's over." - Clyde Drexler after losing at home to go down 3-1 to the Suns in '95

[This message has been edited by Timing (edited March 25, 2001).]

 

Where were you guys when Steve was clutch versus Golden State and Atlanta ? He also scored 30 points against LAC, but we still lost. Steve's play isn't the only determining factor in our wins and losses. We can lose if Steve has a good or bad game. Conversely, we can win if Steve isn't on his A game.

Heyp, I understand your FT argument. But, if you want to look at stats, I would just as soon look at it for the whole season. If Steve ends up shooting 85 % from the line, I'm happy. I don't care if he made 90 % in the first half and only 81 % the second half. Stats are biased to begin with, but I'd rather look at stats for a full season.

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"norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."

 

There aren't many PG's who have numbers better then Steve across the board. 20/7/6 is good no matter how you cut it.



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"norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."

 

How can you in one sentence talk about Cat's scoring average as a shooting guard and then take away Steve's assist advantage as a point guard? Shooting guards are supposed to score are they not? That is certainly Cat's main role on this team. Steve has a higher assist AND scoring average. Should we knock Cat's average down a few points because he's a shooting guard?

Cat played 49 games his rookie year, started 37, AND played in 4 playoff games. He played with Chuck, Pippen, and Dream all at the same time. Any way you want to slice it that is a tremendous amount of experience that he has over Steve.

I'll get to the improvements in a little bit.

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"You have to think optimistic. I think it's never over till it's over." - Clyde Drexler after losing at home to go down 3-1 to the Suns in '95

 

Funny you should mention improvement from year 1 to year 2. Cat in his first 2 seasons played in 130 games, plus 4 playoff games. Steve up to right now in his second season has played 145 games so this should be a pretty fair comparison.

As you can see, in 6 of the 9 categories Steve improved more than Cat in his second year of play. All the while not having the free reign to isolate at will like Cat does often times. The dramatic increase in Cat's scoring is obviously due to the loss of Pippen and Rudy's allowance for him to free lance as an offensive weapon. Steve has big increases in 3pt%, FT%, and still scores more than Cat. Steve also cuts his turnovers by more than half a game while Cat's go up by more than half a game. Cat's turnover increase is much like his increase in scoring, Rudy giving him the ball a lot more.

One more note is that Cat has improved his shooting% every year yet he still hasn't shot as high a percentage as Steve did his rookie year.

Pts: Cat +5.9, Steve +1.9
FG%: Cat +.5, Steve +.4
3PT%: Cat -.2, Steve +5.4
FT%: Cat +2.9, Steve +5.4
REB: Cat +1.3, Steve +1.6
Ast: Cat +.1, Steve -.3
Stl: Cat +.17 Steve +.32
Blk: Cat -.07 Steve +.05
TO: Cat +.59, Steve -.63




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"You have to think optimistic. I think it's never over till it's over." - Clyde Drexler after losing at home to go down 3-1 to the Suns in '95

 

cato13,

please check your email about meeting at the Utah game!! or email me.

thanks

 

Tearing down one Rocket to prop up another. What fun!

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It's Shandon's fault.

"Oh ****!" ---Kenny Thomas

 

I'm not trying to tear either of these guys down. I'm simply trying to back up my point that Steve is a superstar in waiting and Cat is a very good player. I enjoy them both though I wish they would lay off with the hot dog stuff and just play sound basketball. They're a great duo and will only get better with time.

I bet if you asked Mobley about what it was like and how much he learned from playing with three Hall of Famers he would say it was a hell of a learning experience that he'll never forget. One which Stevie could not benefit from unfortunately.


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"You have to think optimistic. I think it's never over till it's over." - Clyde Drexler after losing at home to go down 3-1 to the Suns in '95