you are talking about natural Rights or rather. .. Opportunity . . . BUT for argument sake If a man did that . . .and found. . he can goto jail If a woman. . has a man's baby . . and never tells him about it and eventually he finds out .. .WHAT IS HER PUNISHMENT FOR DENYING HIM HIS PARENTAL RIGHTS?????????? not a d*mn thing A man running away is not a Right .. obviously since he can goto Jail for it Rocket River
LMAO I know he DID NOT just bring up Patty Hearst The Princess that did her dirt then jumped in Daddy's pocket for protection and GOT OFF Rocket River jees that is too funny
Do you not believe in brainwashing, or do you just assume that nothing bad could happen to rich people? This bit about her trial does a pretty good job of explaining what was done to her. For starters, she was kept blindfolded in a closet for 2 months, was raped, beaten repeatedly, and force fed a continuous stream of lies about herself and the SLA. It wasn't like f***ing Paris Hilton breaks a nail and decides to start robbing banks. She was basically destroyed as a human being and rebuilt as the SLA wanted her. She had no patern of behavior before, and has had none since.
True in Mao's China, but not so much these days. I'd also like to point out that 1) the self-awareness of classes in Mao's era was more in political than social sense; 2) on individual basis, the transition from one social class to another in China today is just as likely as in U.S., while it was almost impossible in Mao's era; 3) discussing women of Saudi Arabia and Chinese of today together in a statement like that makes no sense at all.
poor karen. is there anyone who hasn't trashed her on this tour? http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/inte...&en=5f0009cac98c345a&ei=5094&partner=homepage Indonesian Students Challenge U.S. Envoy By REUTERS Filed at 3:13 a.m. ET JAKARTA (Reuters) - U.S. goodwill envoy Karen Hughes got a earful from a group of mostly female Indonesian Muslim students on Friday, who expressed anger at the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and attacked Washington's foreign policies. Tasked by U.S. President George W. Bush to polish America's image overseas, the undersecretary of state for public diplomacy is in Jakarta to meet leading Muslim clerics and students during a tour of the world's most populous Muslim nation. ``Why does America always act as if they were the police of the world?,'' Barikatul Hikmah, a 20-year-old student at the Syarif Hidayatullah University asked Hughes. Lailatul Qadar, a petite 19-year-old student wearing colorful headscarves, added: ``It's Bush in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and maybe it's going to be in Indonesia, I don't know. Who's the terrorist? Bush or us?'' The U.S. embassy organized the session with some 15 students at the university, a moderate Islamic center of learning that has received U.S. funding and which produces some of the country's most influential Muslim thinkers. Hughes, who was largely composed and subdued during the session, defended the invasion of Iraq as necessary to protect the United States following the September 11, 2001, attacks because the administration saw Saddam Hussein as a security threat. ``After all he had used weapons of mass destruction against his own people like he murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people using poison gas against them,'' she said. ``After September 11, the leaders of America had to look at the threat of the world in a very different way ... I think you have to understand the horror and the shocks that Americans went through.'' Saddam Hussein is expected to face charges over a poison gas attack on the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988 which killed about 5,000 people. He has said the deaths were the result of a battle nearby with Iranian forces, which also used gas. Kurdish leaders say that during more than two years of oppression up to 200,000 Kurds were killed in purges and military campaigns, including the Anfal offensive in the late 1980s. Saddam has also been accused of war crimes committed during Iraq's eight-year war with Iran, which he launched in 1980, in which both sides are accused of using chemical weapons. FOCUS ON IRAQ Most of the handpicked students who spoke at the one hour session in Jakarta focused on Iraq. Indonesia has long had strong relations with the United States and is a key ally in the war against terrorism, especially in the wake of bomb attacks on Indonesian soil by Islamic militants linked to al Qaeda. But Indonesian Muslims deeply opposed the invasion of Iraq and Bush has been the target of protesters' anger during periodic demonstrations against U.S. policies. Many accuse the U.S. government of also showing favoritism toward Israel. Hughes is a close confidante and image-shaper of Bush with no previous experience in foreign diplomacy other than accompanying him abroad during trips in the first years of his presidency. On a five-day visit to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey last month -- her first trip in the new job -- she also heard frank views from women in those countries. Hughes is scheduled to visit Malaysia after Indonesia. Another female student at the session said Iraqis should decide for themselves in their own time whether they wanted to establish a democratic government. ``Your country's foreign policy has created hostilities among Muslims,'' the student said. Hughes' visit comes as the United States tries to limit damage from television images appearing to show U.S. soldiers burning the corpses of two Taliban fighters in Afghanistan and using the incident for propaganda. She was not asked about the incident at the university.
Afghanistan? Just goes to show how out of it some people are. And when did we intervene in Palestine, btw? People talk about OUR media being homogenized, lol.
In that you have already accepted that Chinese media is under strict control there very much is. Historically, the place where peons stopped accepting that they were peons was when they were given access to free and divergent media viewpoints. When I discuss the similarity I discuss it in the sense that both are fed a consistent ideological stream of ideas and not given free choice among diverse ideas. The mandate of heaven is one of the greatest political ideas of the premodern world. Is the PRC subject to the Mandate of Heaven? If Li Bai were born today would he be anything but censored? I listen quite a bit to the PRC's China Today broadcasts as well as the other broadcasts on WRN. In the years that I have been listening, I have yet to hear the PRC's broadcast say anything bad about anything happening in China. This is unique to China. The ideas which people on the street spout in interviews is not an organic Chinese idea, but rather one directly mandated by the Communist Party of China in response to the troubles predating the Sino-Japanese War. People who repeat verbatim what their government wants them to repeat are essentially programed. If the government tells everybody happy shiny things and tells them that economic freedoms are more important than political freedoms, does that make it so? If you condition a dog with an electric fence, when you remove the fence and the dog stays within the boundries is that freedom?
Wow, glad this popped back up, just so I could read that post, Ottoman. Very thoughtful. Thanks. Keep D&D Civil.
We are in Afghanistan... thats all the girl said, dunno whats so out of it about it... and us in Palestine as in OUR money, OUR choppers etc etc... and after are Israel is OUR ally.
What I don't get is how come people complain that the U.S. doesn't do enough to foster democracy and that the U.S. supports these horrible dictatorships. We get criticized so much on that. Now, when the U.S. comes in and tries to build the foundation for that - equal rights and advancement of women, we get lamasted as trying to spread "our" ways on other people. Damned if you don't, damned if you do.
The very idea of forcing democracy on people goes against the principle of 'democracy.' Most of the criticism is based on the hypocrisy of our foregin policy. Based on our history, we have sided with and shunned both depending on what serves our interests (or interests of our allies for that matter). BTW, democracy in one culture/country might not necessarily be the same in other country. Our democracy is based on American values/principles. Other's democracy will be based on their own culture.
Not really. We have always interved in Palestine. The financial support we give to Israel is staggering. And as alread mentioned,w e are the main supplier of most of their weapons, which are used to keep the Palestinians in check. So yes, I can understand why most of the people outside of US think that we intervene in Palestine. I am not talking about just the Arabs btw. It's not a secret that US-Israel are the best of friends. Which part of Afghanistan did not make sense? She was saying we were there. Were we not? I dont agree with her when it comes to justification because I feel we made the right decision to go into Afghanistan. But i cant argue with her about the fact that we did intervene.
I'm not a political scientist by training, so give me a little leeway here. These poly sci heads can't even agree on when USSR stopped becoming a totalitarian regime. Is Saudi Arabia a totalitarian or authoritarian government? I'm not sure that definition will matter to ALL citizens of SA and not a select minority....
I don't know what you define as democracy, but it starts fairly simple - with the right to vote - and that should apply to women as well as men. But more so, the bill of rights is not an American only document, it's been adopted in various forms by nearly every living democracy. So if the U.S. pressures Arab governments to become more democratic - we're forcing it upon them???...and if we do nothing, then we're supporting oppression???? C'mon - give me a break, I think people are just looking to blame the U.S. no matter what we do!
"As official US Minister of Propaganja, let me tell all you future customers that we are working hard every single day to make damn well sure that Afghanistan stays right on top as the reigning industry leader in global poppy production."
I was'nt talking about right to vote. I was talking about democracy as government for the people, elected by the people, to serve those very same people. Different countries have different culture, so they will not all have the same values even if they practice democracy. Our effort to implement democracy in other countries is novel. Problem arises when we want democracy but at the same time want our cultural values to be implemented in those democracies. And let's not brag about us giving women the right to vote. How many years did it take us to give those rights after we drafted the consititution? As for your second question, like I said earlier, as long as our foregin policy has doule standards, we will be looked at that way.
Which cultural values are you referring to? In fact, i'm not really sure what your stance is - are you supporting that the U.S. support the dictatorships or that we put pressure for change? Which way do you want it? Anyone can criticize and attack for the sake of it, but it's rare when you find someone who can come up with a solution.
I think you tried to tie in two ideas that aren't related. I haven't heard much complaining about #1. But as for #2, it is pretty hypocritical for the USA to verbally attack other nations while supporting countries such as Saudi Arabia. Back to #1, I really haven't heard too many people complaining about the US acting too little. Perhaps in situations where it is almost universally viewed as necessary, such as Rwanda, the US has turned a blind eye. But as for invading Iraq, helping establish many coups in Latin America, jumping into Korea, Vietnam, etc., I'm pretty sure the USA has been doing plenty of "fostering". In fact, it's more the opposite. Most countries want the US to mind their own business.
