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Sanders Bill Eliminates all Student Loans. Period

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    When did you attend college?

    I went in the 80's and things have changed drastically since then.
     
  2. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    When someone acts conservative, it's OK to say they are acting conservative. I'm under no illusion that someone like Major is a conservative, he is liberal, but on certain issues people can behave conservatively, hold conservative viewpoints, or behave in a way that plays directly into conservative advantage. Apologies if what I said sounded like I am painting with a broad or binary brush, because I know that people are not like that.

    Has nothing to do with what I said, but OK.

    I'm calling out conservative behavior as conservative. I'm calling out anti-populist behavior as anti-populist.

    This is the D&D. You're allowed to think you're right. Some things I'm not sure of, and some I am.

    100% wrong. Nobody in the Mid-West switched from Obama to Trump because of some mythical purity test on the left.
     
    #102 DonnyMost, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Taxes are part of law. By law taxes due are not rightfully yours. The Trump tax cuts were a portion of the income due to the government by law that were given back to a people and corporations with a new law.

    Yeah... its a legal giveaway if you can pass new law, but its a giveaway. Its money you didn't have one day, and were given the next.
     
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  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Field of study has probably more to do with work and study load than school ranking.

    I'm sure some majors and fields, working longer hours is doable while maintaining a high gpa. Maybe i'm just not intelligent enough to gimp on some of my studies and projects to work 30 hours a week, I knew a few who could pull it off but they were far more sharper individuals than me.

    Anyways, there is a reason the GI bill provides a massive housing allowance for veterans when they are in mid semester taking courses. Because they realized too may veterans have to quit school to sustain a cost of living. They couldn't do both on average, excel in school and work longer hours.
     
    #104 fchowd0311, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  5. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Time is the most valuable commodity we have, so yes, it is enough and lets remember that not everyone has money to sacrifice.

    As for the millennial thing...we act as if millennials live in the same economy that every other generation in the past lived through. They don't. I hate the idea that one generation 'worked' harder than another. It sort of assumes that the parents of these millennials failed them first of all and it ignores that we live in a different world now.
     
  6. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Wow, what a remarkably dumb post.

    You are forced to pay taxes. The money is yours to begin with. You earn the money. You then send it to the federal government to pay your federal income tax burden, if you are self-employed this is done quarterly.

    You are not "given" money via tax cuts. You are, quite literally, having less money taken from you.
     
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Thirty hours is starting to press it for most students. I personally think 20 hours is a good amount (that is an average after working longer hours in the summer). I agree that major matters. I have my degrees in economics and in law.

    My whole point is I think there needs to be some degree of financial sacrifice..... not 30 years worth, but some level.
     
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  8. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    You said they are acting conservative because they don't agree with Berny, that makes no sense.

    Why can't there be a middle ground for democrats.

    Why can't democrats have conservative ideas what's wrong with that?

    Student loan relief is not populism since they don't reflect a significant part of the population.
     
  9. HTM

    HTM Member

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    I think most everyone agrees some level of taxation is necessary. It's just a matter of how much.

    Nobody claimed taxation was "theft" but the money will be taken from you via force if necessary.
     
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  10. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Time is not the most valuable commodity.

    I agree that millennial don't live in the same economy as other generations and I sympathize with them and I don't think they are failures.

    But your previous post did not take any personal responsibility and came off as wanting everything handed to you because of your time and effort.

    The world does not work that way.
     
  11. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    They're acting conservative because they are taking conservative policy positions.

    I didn't say there couldn't be. I'm entitled to criticize right-leaning ideals, which is what I'm doing.

    If you've been following along with the thread, I actually don't support Bernie's policy (other than the fact it is my only option), but I support the strategy politically and taking the fight on this issue to the right head on.

    The solution I am waiting on will likely come from the center of the Democratic party, not the left or the right side of it. However, right now only the far left seems willing to do a damned thing about it.

    Nothing inherently, I have some conservative ideals too, but some conservative ideas are bad and I think they should be criticized. What is wrong with that?

    Something like 1 in 5 adult Americans has student loan debt. How much more populist can you get on an issue?
     
    #111 DonnyMost, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  12. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Wait what?

    What was your purpose here?

    You don't agree with the policy yet you were calling democrats conservatives and anti populist because what?

    Why are you in here bad mouthing democrats in thread talking about a policy you don't even agree witj?

    And no Bernies position is your only option Sanders has a tuition policy also.

    You are coming off more and more like a Trump supporter just change his name with Berny.
     
  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Something needs to be done about student loans due to the predatory nature of so many of them along with the ridiculous cost of universities, but totally wiping all of them is irksome to those of us that worked and didn't take out loans. As others have mentioned healthcare needs to be the big priority -- I agree with easing the burden, wiping them totally I don't see happening.
     
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  14. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Sincerely I ask, if not time, then what?

    We will just have to agree to disagree but if you have the power to forego sleep you would be able to get a lot more done. You could even pick up an artistic talent in that time all while not sacrificing any personal relationships or your career. There is a reason why serving prison time sucks, it wouldn't mean anything to serve 30 years in prison if you were immortal.

    No, I just think that sacrificing time is enough. I don't think a financial sacrifice is fair because not everyone can make it and it means that poorer people have little cushion to fail.

    As for hard work, that's a given. When you study that is time sacrificed to your studies. When you go to college that is time sacrificed to whatever you are trying to achieve. All of this time spent could be spent doing practically anything and this is a resource that is finite that you will never get back.
     
  15. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    It's just agree to disagree.
     
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  16. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    The bigger problem is too many people are going to college and getting useless degrees. What is the point of an english or biology degree. Unless you get into med school, a bio or bio chem degree is useless. Same with things like art history or english. I APed out of every English class I could because I knew its a waste of time and money. I think we need to become more like Germany with job training instead of college.
     
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  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I have an equal amount of derision for this line of thinking. How much of "your" money do you think you'd have if it wasn't for the organization that makes it possible for you to get it, and to keep it? Do you think the land otherwise known as the USA would be the richest and most powerful country in the world if we didn't have a government run on taxes?
     
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  18. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Who said we shouldn't have a government or taxes? o_O
     
  19. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    I started in 2004 (graduated in 2006). The amount of free time that was on our hands was a joke. Most of us weren't hard working. I was part-time at Wal-Mart (but working full-time hours).

    It isn't like we needed part-time jobs though. So many of the students (including myself) were living off of Mom & Dad. We had the HOPE scholarship which covered our tuition as long as we had a 3.0 (not the case anymore though). Those same people still borrowed money, because they could. My best friend, who didn't have parents paying received Pell grant, which combined with Hope was more than the cost of housing and tuition, but still borrowed the max Stafford loans every semester to support his expensive taste. My other friend just kept borrowing money until he had failed too many classes to stay.

    Doesn't help students are taking longer to graduate. The 5 year plan is common, and many are spending longer than that, which is just crazy.
     
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  20. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    This is a multi-part problem and that is certainly a piece of it.

    We need to tackle it from a few angles....

    1) Tuition control - Have the federal government more involved in tuition regulation and helping to get costs down by limiting the insane amounts of bloat and overhead schools have created since the loan boom.

    2) Invest in different post-secondary options - The government should subsidize and promote the crap out of trade and professional schools. Not everyone is meant for academia. In fact, most aren't. We need to bring skilled manual labor back in vogue. Plumbers, HVAC, carpentry, welders, etc. Those jobs aren't going anywhere and contribute to society.

    3) Create some type of plan or path out of debt - Something like a "10 for 10" deal where you donate 10% of your earnings for the next 10 years and at the end you are considered debt free.
     
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