yah, let's argue over the better role players from a decade ago! btw, what did those heroes do FOR THE ROCKETS after 1995? oh that's right, they were traded. so much for saving the day.
my friend, it is the offseason it is a business isn't it? they still played their game for other teams and performed heroically.
don't know if it has been stated, but when it comes to the first championship squad MJ had a MUCH better supporting cast around him...that same cast of characters that he won his first 3 titles with went on to win 50 + games the next season (in '94 win he retired), and took the Knick team we beat in 7 games to 7 games also, and one could argue that they could've won that series minus the Hubert Davis call....as much as I love the Rockets (especially that first championship team) it was Hakeem and some role players....the 2nd title featured Drexler, and the role players had more of an impact (especially in the post season)...........a young Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, Paxson.......and of course MJ would've been too much for the first title team, but I think the '95 team could've taken them.
so you're arguing that the Rockets without Hakeem would defeat the Bulls without Jordan? Why is this relevant? As far as I know, the Bulls with Jordan won 72 games and 6 rings in 8 seasons.
macalu forgets: 1. horry is still winning championships 2. cassell is still taking bad franchises out of the cellar to the playoffs (seriously who gets traded to the clippers and gets excited about it? Only Sam) the next season might be the last for the original Clutchcity Champions they did us proud, showing the world and the universe that 1993's HEROISM and HEART was unmatched!
Jordan was that good. He was that superior of a player. Cause his supporting cast has shown post Jordan that they weren't really leaders or heroes. Look at Pippen. The Rockets paid him 14million for "his leadership". How many more championships or defining moments of heroism for Pippen? "QUITTEN" on the Rockets, then "CHOKING" with the Blazers. On the contrary, Post Dream Clutch HEROES have gone on to be LEADERS and HEROES on other teams. Mario Elie with his toughness helped a soft San Antonio Team. Horry always making the right play at the right time, and always hitting game winners. Sam Cassell proving himself to be on the best scoring PGs in the game, with the best mid-range game in the league and turning around franchises like the Nets, Bucks, Wolves and Clippers. That's what its about.
Root for Chicago then! I will take and enjoy the Houston championships regardless of how many another city has because it is my home team. Who give a rat's a$$ what someone outside of H-town thinks? We got two, playing against the best the league had to offer at that time. Just because someone else thinks it does not make it fact. I guess by that method of thinking, their should be an asterisk next to a few of Jordans since Magic retired early due to his HIV infection. What a bunch of crap! Hell, the Rockets from Jordan's first three championships owned the Bulls, they just couldn't get past the Sonics. Jordan was constantly asked by the media types who he didn't want to face in the finals. He always said the Rockets. Mad Max Heros or not, the Bulls had better role players than ours during their championship runs. How many all stars did we have compared to the bulls? We had Dream and who else? They had Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman.
nice to see you start to change your tone from rookie, and "speaking from his other end" to friend. If it makes it easier for contributing members who made almost 10k post to agree with me, a rookie of a couple of weeks at this board. Let me say this, I for one are the few who really believe that the then rox team could beat the jordan's bulls in 94,95, reason being, cassell, elie and clyde could limit jordan, but no one on the bulls got a chance with hakeem. For that faithful 96 preseason, if the trade for barkley did not happen, we COULD see a finals between rox and bulls. As cassell and horry >> barkley and whoever that plays PG. They would create better spacing as both cassell and horry are good 3p shooters, thus granting hakeem more place to do his stuff. But during that season of 1996, they got rodman. Who can do a decent job on hakeem. But those statements is with hakeem in the rox jersey. As i stated before, without hakeem, this heros as you called them, would not be able to get the game close enough to win them. Luther head is a clutch performers this past season, he is a hero, going by your explanation. By scoring vital 3p at the final quarter. But when yao is gone, or when tmac is not playing well, do you see Luther stepping up and win the game for us? Same goes for the then rox team, if they miss out hakeem, and his 20+ points, 10+ rebounds, 3+ blocks, 2+ assist, and timely steals. Would the game be winnable by your heros? Who would be able to take up the spot as the main point getter, main defender and main rebounder? Not to mention the inside presence of hakeem? Cilcutt? tabak? For the bulls team, if they miss out on jordan, their leader, their flagship, their scorer, and their best perimeter defender, they could look for leadership from stalwarts like John Edwards(who won with pistons), points when jordan is out could be somewhat generate from kukoc/kerr/pippen. On defense, they could slide pippen to defend the best player, then harper to pippen's man and randy brown/kukoc comes in to take on the third best player. The team offense still runs by pippen and the defense do not take much of a sizeble hit. obliviously both team would be weaken without their best players, but rox without hakeem at the middle would be a team struggling to get to playoffs, while bulls of 96, without jordan would still be a 2nd rounder. Thats why i came out and says that, without hakeem, they would not be heros, hence heros vs role players do not applied. As they are heros due to other great players work. About cassell and kukoc, cassell got the individual accolades while kukoc do not have stats as good as cassell, but its my personal opinion that kukoc is a better player, he may not get as much assist, but he sure do make a lot passes that leads to the assist pass. He do not score as much as cassell regularly but he do fill up the scorers table, like the 34 points against Miami, getting past the 30 point mark at least 8 times(i cant find any confirmation of this). He is 6"11 but he can play all 5 spot, he shoot 3ps, get rebounds, assist and blocks, got his 1st triple double as a sophomore(14 points, 10 rebounds, and 11 assists) and have 4 triple doubles in his career. Its just like horry and rodman, you like horry better, but rodman having more individual accolades and the better stats. Its your call, same goes with the argument of whos better, wilt, russell, kareem, hakeem or shaq. Everyone have their own favorites. using your acronym, cassell, horry, clyde are X-man, but without prof xavier, they would not be X-man.
watch '95 WCF...everyone always talks about Hakeem destroying D Rob, but they always forget that Dennis had to guard him also.......he raped both of them, which makes it that much more amazing considering how GREAT both of them were defensively. I disagree....Drexler didn't win a title without Hakeem does that make him a choker? And Kerr went on to win a couple of titles with the Spurs and hit some big shots after leaving Chicago, Ron Harper helped out in L.A., so did Horace Grant......Kukoc never really ever got to play with another great player so you can't question the mans ability to play in big games..and Pippen had his clutch moments throughout the bulls title runs, unfortunately most people remember him for his migraine headaches that he caught in the ECF in 1990 so they label him a soft loser who couldn't do anything without Jordan...and that simply isn't true.
Cassell is the PG, which is the most important role on most NBA Teams. Are those the best Toni Kukoc games? Here are Cassell's best post Hakeem. According to YOU, Cassell was only getting his second wind with the Clippers, this is without the Clips. 1997-98: Named NBA Player of the Week for the week ending 4/12, averaging 30.0 ppg and 11.0 apg to lead the Nets to a 4-0 record. 1999-2000: named NBA Player of the Week (11/2-7) after averaging 29.0 points and 9.0 assists while shooting a league-best 69.4 percent from the field 2000-01: had 19 games of 10 or more assists, including a team-high 17 double-doubles...scored a career-high 40 points on 18-of-24 FG vs. Chicago (3/3) - forced a second overtime with a buzzer-beating trey at the end of the first OT.. scored a career playoff-high 33 points at Charlotte in Game 6 (5/17), including 13-of-15 (both career-highs) from the free throw line...grabbed a career-high 16 rebounds at Orlando (4/28). 2001-02: .scored in double figures in all but four games this season...scored a season-high 33 points at San Antonio on December 23.. 2002-03: Averaged a career-high-tying 19.7 ppg, a career-best 4.4 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.13 spg and 34.6 mpg in 78 contests for the Milwaukee Bucks... Committed just 2.3 turnovers per game... Missed four games due to various injuries... Scored in double digits in all but seven games played... Posted 20+ points on 45 occasions and 30+ points five times... Led the team in scoring 26 times, rebounding nine times and assists 34 times... Bucks were 13-5 when he posted 8+ assists... Tallied his first career triple-double Dec. 9 at Cleveland, registering a season-high 39 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists... Tallied his second triple-double Jan. 22 at Boston, recording 14 points, a season-high 16 assists and a career-high 11 rebounds... 2003-04: Tied his season high with 34 points Feb. 8 vs. Memphis, his sixth 30-point effort of the season and the 15th time he's been Minnesota's top scorer... Also had 34 points Jan. 3 at Dallas... Collected a game-high 24 points, six rebounds and a game-high seven assists Feb. 11 at Utah. Scored a game-high 30 points Jan. 21 at Toronto... Named Western Conference Player of the Week on Dec. 29, his third career weekly award.. Scored 26 points with a season-high 14 assists Nov. 5 vs. Sacramento. 2003-04: Averaged 19.8 points, 7.3 assists and 3.3 rebounds in 81 games played…posted career-highs in points per game (19.8 ppg), field goal percentage (.488, first among guards) and three-point field goal percentage (.398)…named an NBA All-Star for the first time in his career…finished the season ranked fifth in the NBA in assists…scored 30+ points on seven occasions…had 18 point/assist double-doubles…dished out 10+ assists on 20 occasions…named Western Conference Player of the Week for the week of 12/22/04…3/29/05 at Houston, scored his 12,0000th career point…4/4/05 vs. Memphis, scored a season-high 36 points…3/23/05 vs. San Antonio, notched his third career triple-double with 14 points, 10 rebounds and 11 assists…PLAYOFFS: Averaged 16.6 points and 4.4 assists in 16 playoff games, helping Minnesota reach the Western Conference Finals…recorded franchise playoff-record 40 point games vs. Denver on 4/18/04 and vs. Sacramento on 5/4/04.
in their primes I'd have to go with Sam-I-Am.....in their title days I might go with Kukoc though...........both are amazing talents and gutsy players...
hmmm, factor in that cassell and horry are rookies, as well as kukoc. I would say drexler vs pippen comes out pretty even with no one showing any edge. same goes for elie vs kukoc, and cassell vs harper. With rodman better than horry. So a slight edge is to bulls, just by factoring in the size factor as well as the experience that these players have during that times. But what if you compare the rest of the squad? Bulls can bring in 3 7" in luc longley, wellington and john edwards. Which would murder chilcutt and tabak. kenny smith would be able to rain 3s, but still a perimeter defense of 6"11 kukoc, 6"8 pippen and 6"6 harper, with rodman filling up any spaces. I'm sorry, but i just cant see how rox95 going to beat bulls96 with no one getting any rebounds. Totals Ag G MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TS% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS PER Scottie Pippen 29 79 3014 634 1320 .480 109 316 .345 315 440 .716 .559 175 464 639 409 232 89 271 238 1692 22.6 Clyde Drexler 32 76 2728 571 1238 .461 147 408 .360 364 442 .824 .577 152 328 480 362 136 45 186 206 1653 22.4 Per Game Ag G MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TS% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS PER Scottie Pippen 29 79 38.2 8.0 16.7 .480 1.4 4.0 .345 4.0 5.6 .716 .559 2.2 5.9 8.1 5.2 2.9 1.1 3.4 3.0 21.4 22.6 Clyde Drexler 32 76 35.9 7.5 16.3 .461 1.9 5.4 .360 4.8 5.8 .824 .577 2.0 4.3 6.3 4.8 1.8 0.6 2.4 2.7 21.8 22.4
if you had a choice to shoot the last shot to win a playoff game? who would it be from this list? 1.ron harper 2.dennis rodman 3.scottie pippen 4. ROBERT HORRY
I guess no one got any rebounds against Dennis Rodman/David Robinson in the 1995 WCF except for Hakeem right? When you say Rodman is better than Horry, do you count that Rodman does not SCORE ANY POINTS? You know Rodman and Horry DID FACE EACH OTHER in the WCF1995. Please rewatch this, you might learn something. 1994-95: Appeared in 64 games, averaging 10.2 points, 5.1 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 1.47 steals and 1.19 blocks in 32.4 minutes … in 22 playoff games averaged 13.1 points, 7.0 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.45 steals and 1.18 blocks in 38.2 minutes … had 22 points (7-16 FG, 6-11 3PT-FG, 2-3 FT) and 7 rebounds in 46 minutes in the Rockets Game 6 win over the Spurs in Houston on 6/1 … in the Finals averaged 17.0 points, 10.0 rebounds and 3.8 assists … set an NBA Finals record with 7 steals at Orlando on 6/5. I'm sorry you didn't want any of these games.
In that 22 playoff game run, he was the teams' second leading scorer behind Olajuwon with 20.5 ppg while also grabbing 7.0 rpg and dishing out 5.0 apg. In the Finals sweep over the Orlando Magic, his production even increased to 21.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg and 6.8 apg. In the conference finals, he and Olajuwon became the third set of teammates to score 40 points in a playoff game as Drexler hit for 41 in Game 4 against the Jazz.
Fine i get it, Sam did very well throughout his career. You like a PG that can score points and give assist, i like a big European that can play all 5 spots. Be a team player, defends and scores. Willing to be at the be
neither of those 3 players were rookies...Horry was in his 3rd or 4th year in '95, and Cassell was in his 2nd.......Ron Harper was good defensively but he sucked on offense at that point in his career and Kerr could hit an open shot, but that's about it...so as far as PG goes I'd give the edge to the rockets tandem of Smith and Sammy......Kukoc > Elie....but as a 6th man I think him and Sam would be a draw.......while Rodman was a great rebounder he like Luc Longley brought nothing on the offensive end of the floor.....thats why I think the first 3 peat Bulls team was better than the 2nd because Grant could play offense and defense, Cartwright was better than Longley, Wennington, Armstrong and Paxson were a better tandem in the backcourt...people get caught up in the 72 win season imo......like you said though rebounding would concern me, but the rockets beat the likes of Robinson, Rodman, Malone, Shaq, Grant, Barkley, etc. with no true PF so I think they could make it happen..........every team has it's weaknesses....the 80's Lakers (who imo are the greatest team ever) didn't shoot the 3 point ball particulary well.......it's all about adjusting and coming up big in the clutch, and that '95 team did just that, that's why I think they'd have a shot.
