Looks like 3 years he payed 'well'. Yeah that 2003 team was good since all those guys you mentioned scored more than 10 points. that means that the ball must be distributed pretty well by a point guard. Who was the point guard in 2003? SAM CASSELL 2001-02 19.7 pts/game 2002-03 19.7 pts/game 2003-04 19.8 pts/game 2004-05 13.5 pts/game 2005-06 17.2 pts/game 2006-07 12.3 pts/game CAREER NBA AVG:14 Seasons 16 pts/game here's some other stats in that 2002-03 season you didn't 'REALIZE' Led the team in scoring 26 times, rebounding nine times and assists 34 times Posted 20+ points on 45 occasions and 30+ points five times triple-double Dec. 9 at Cleveland, registering a season-high 39 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists
yeah, i can make a case for Cassell to only qualify for the conference finals only at good team. I guess 90% of the teams that made it to the conference finals are made up of more than 1 good player. There is no questioning of horry as a clutch player, but your so called all round game of his got 7.2 points average. Rodman your so called one dimensional player got 7.3 points. (i cant compare shooting% as horry shoots a lot further than rodman, so horry's shooting% will surely be affected) And i'm still failing to see how the 95 rox team with 2 sophomore players in Cassell and Horry even thou they do have clyde would beat the 96 bulls team who have a prime pippen, rodman and kukoc. How can a team that finished the season with a record of 47-35, could match up with the bulls that ended 72-10. Stats are not everything, but when it shows a big gap such as that, then i really cant see past it. This is the rox full roster during 95, Guards-Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell,Clyde Drexler, Kenny Smith Forwards-Carl Herrera,Mario Elie,Charles Jones, Chucky Brown, Robert Horry Centers-Hakeem Olajuwon, Pete Chilcutt, Zan Tabak and bulls roster during 96 Guards-Ron Harper, Michael Jordan, steve kerr, Forwards-Toni Kukoč,Jud Buechler, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman Centers-Dickey Simpkins, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington, John Salley, James Edwards In the 10 games that hakeem miss that season, rox got a record of 3-7. 16. Tue, 12/06/1994 at SEA L (90-103) 69. Tue, 03/28/1995 vs LAL L (96-106) 70. Thu, 03/30/1995 at LAC W (108-96) 71. Sat, 04/01/1995 vs MIL L (87-93) 72. Tue, 04/04/1995 at SAC L (105-109) 73. Thu, 04/06/1995 at GSW W (110-102) 74. Fri, 04/07/1995 at POR L (109-127) 75. Sun, 04/09/1995 at DEN W (123-120) 76. Tue, 04/11/1995 vs DAL L (147-156) 82. Sun, 04/23/1995 vs UTA L (97-103) Out of those teams, lakers, portland, denver and utah made it to the playoffs that season. Clippers(17-65), Warriors(26-56) and Denver(41-41) In addition to the games that rox plays against a jordan-less bulls, a hakeem led rox goes 1-1, with both teams got the win at home. Extracted from wiki "Jordan won his eighth scoring title, and Rodman his fifth straight rebounding title, while Kerr finished second in the league in three-point shooting percentage. Jordan garnered the elusive triple crown with the regular season MVP, All-star Game MVP, and Finals MVP. Krause was named Executive of the Year, Jackson Coach of the Year, and Kukoc was the Sixth Man of the Year. Both Pippen and Jordan made the All-NBA First Team, and Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman made the All-Defensive First Team, making the Bulls the only team in history with three players on the All-Defensive First Team. In addition, the 1995-96 squad holds several other records, including the best road record in a standard 41-road-game season (33-8), the all-time best start by a team (41-3), the longest home winning streak (44 games, 7 from previous season), the best start at home (37-0). The Bulls also posted the second-best home record in history (39-2), behind only the 1985-86 Celtics 40-1 home mark, and the 2nd best point differential in history, trailing the 1972 Lakers by 3 points over the course of an entire season. " Now please explain to me, how on earth a hakeem-less rox team going to beat this jordan-less bulls team? Please do not say Sam going to put up 30 points, while clyde will put up another 30 points, while horry and elie going to post up 15 points each. While shutting down, kerr,pippen, kukoc and longly.Zan tabak going to put up 10 rebounds and 5 blocks against salley and wennington. That is not going to happen. I remember someone saying that after bulls, none of the players won anything, well, harper went to lakers and got himself 2 more rings, while sally got himself "four championship rings, with three different teams, in three different decades and two different millenniums."
when you take out jordan and dream why do you compare regular season records? drexler was still getting acclimated to the team why not? cassell, clyde, horry and elie all have done it plenty of times before with multiple teams. dont see why they couldnt do it again? did harper ever have any memorable moments with the lakers? Was salley ever in the top 5 for the pistons? lakers? bad examples
1) my bad, i never thought cassell would average 19.8points, kukoc did average 19.7 for Atalanta in 19 games until got traded. i never did say that kukoc got 19.7 for the season. how nice of you to "forget" about the years before 2000. Where are arguments are being made. 1993-94 10.9 1994-95 15.7 1995-96 13.1 1996-97 13.2 1997-98 13.3 1998-99 18.8 1999-00 14.8 Sam Cassell 1993-94 6.7 1994-95 9.5 1995-96 14.5 1996-97 15.9 1997-98 19.6 1998-99 15.9 1999-00 18.6 looks like during the 2 championship years, cassell did not do so well.
i believe the argument was for post championship years. cassell was a rookie and sophmore...look at the playoff stats
Because 5 players play in a game, not 1 player. Thats saying that the rox is not good enough to beat other teams, without hakeem. Then why cant pippen, rodman, harper, and kerr shut them down while scoring 15-25 points themself? they did it before. Well, both was brought to lakers to bring leadership, and to show the lakers how to run the triangle. Salley was not the top 5 players, but definitely in the main rotation for pistons.
err, for your information, kukoc was a rookie and sophomore in that 2 years as well. And the argument is about how well players runs the show without their big star during their championship run. Remember? "Rockets vs Bulls : Heroes vs Role Players"
oh, and i'm saying that the bulls team of 96 will beat the rox team of 95. While you and tinman are saying the other way round.
i didn't "FORGET" the argument was how well a player was after they left their "SUPERSTAR". you know, Post Hakeem, Post Jordan. Yeah, horrible. Alvin, did you know that Cassell was not a starter his 1st two years? Horrendous was Cassell: 1993-94: ..The 6-foot-3 Cassell enjoyed one of the most memorable postseasons by a rookie since Magic Johnson in 1980. Often playing more minutes than Smith, Cassell deftly directed the Rockets' floor game and coolly sank several key buckets for Houston in the NBA Finals against the New York Knicks...In 22 postseason games Cassell averaged 9.4 points and 4.2 assists in 21.7 minutes per contest...The Rockets dumped the Knicks in seven games to win their first-ever NBA Championship... 1994-95: Defying all postseason predictions, the Rockets won four series against the four teams with the best regular-season records in the NBA-the Utah Jazz, Phoenix Suns, San Antonio Spurs, and Orlando Magic (who had tied for the fourth-best mark)...Cassell averaged 11.0 points and 4.0 assists in the playoffs, and in the Finals he averaged 14.3 points, converting 7 of 15 three-point shots and 20 of 24 free throws...After Smith's big outing in Game 1, Cassell took his turn in Game 2, scoring 31 points on 8-of-12 shooting from the field and 11-of-12 shooting from the line in the Rockets' victory...Cassell and Smith combined to average 22.0 points and 8.5 assists from the point guard slot in the postseason...The NBA Championship was Cassell's second in two seasons in the league... You're right Alvin, he was just terrible.
Pocket, we're arguing with: 1. a rookie 2. a rookie who doesn't look at the stats he googles 3. a rookie who thinks kukoc is a better player than cassell 4. a rookie who thinks cassell was bad in his rookie year! I think it would be easier arguing with Stephon Marbury or climbing Mt Everest
i'd rather have Jordan, six championships, and his "role players" than Hakeem, 2 championships with asterisks (that's right, no matter how much you want to spin it, everyone outside of Houston thinks so), and supposedly "heroes".
haha, i'm a rookie,i made mistakes, i doesn't look at stats, somehow i do really thinks kukoc is a better player than cassell, and casell was bad in stats in his rookie years compare to his other years. Anyway, you have yet to show me, or tell me why or how the Rox team of 95 is better and going to beat the bulls team of 96. (notes its the 1995-1996 season that bulls got that 72-10 record not 1996-1997 as i stated earlier, again another bad mistake by me.) You have shown me that sam and horry have played wonderfully well after the couple of years they spent with rox. With one going to the WCF once and ECF once, gaining all-stars and 2nd NBA team. And another one joins up with the most dominant big man, and got to 15 straight playoffs, got clutch moments and multiple rings to boot. You said about leadership from Elie, who screams at David Robinson. You said about pippen who cant win without jordan even thou he did play with another good team to the finals(i cant put lead as poket insist that its the team that carry him and not the other way round), and 1-dimensional dennis rodman who scores as much as horry, and certainly got more rebounds and got tougher defending jobs. But you do not show how was the rox team better than the bulls team. You have pick on players, grab every mistake that i made, but have yet to show me what i need to know. I'm certainly am younger than you, and by living out of USA , my nba experience will not be able to compare with yours, but you just cannot show me any thing that shows me that rox team is good without having a player name hakeem in the middle. In fact without hakeem, this rox team would not even make it to the playoff.
ask laker fan and spurs fans about Horry. "HERO" fine, have your Bulls Championships, benedict macarnoldlu!
how can I argue with you? you think 1+1=pi if you watch basketball, you would know who's the better player. why is kukoc better? is because he SCORES more points? APPARENTLY NOT google me the stats of 20+ games for Kukoc compared to Cassell google me the stats of assists for Kukoc vs Cassell if you think winning 2 NBA championships as a rookie and sophmore are bad, how can I argue with you? I don't care if the bulls win 82 games. there's only one hero that they produce and it was JORDAN. everyone else on that team was a role player, no heroes. Kerr and Kukoc (your superstar who averages 11pts) Post Jordan - none of those guys have done TRULY HEROIC things, not to the scale of Horry, Drexler, Cassell, and Elie. you really think Pippen is a leader?? Answer that question.
well friend, i'll find you some links of the 'old' rockets games and you decide for yourself how they look perform under pressure. And you can cetainly pay attention to Horry and Cassell. here is a good one: http://stage6.divx.com/NBA-Classic-Games/videos/
i'll ask Bulls fans which team they think had the better role players. then, i'll ask if the '95 Rockets could beat any of the Bulls' championship teams. gee, i wonder what they'll say.
I never said they didn't have any ROLE PLAYERS. they just don't have any HEROES. Jimmy Olsen -role player - role=reporter Superman -HERO See the difference? Jimmy Olsen -role player - takes pictures Superman -Saves the day See the difference? Dennis Rodman -role player- gets rebounds Robert Horry -hero -hits game winning shots First Alvin Choo then Macalu Debbie Gisbon sang "Out of the blue"
i thought we were talking about playing without dream and jordan? you can't bring stats into a question (which you started) and expect it to hold as arguments why the 96 bulls are better than the 95 rockets. you keep straying away from the actual question. leadership? when did salley show the lakers the triangle...i believe tex winter was guilty. maybe pippen and harper could score but little ol kerr couldnt without jordan or duncan. did you forget your own statements you cant bring records into this if you are asking the question of role players playing each other. its plain and simple: drexler vs. pippen horry vs. rodman elie vs. kukoc cassell vs. harper rodman and kukocs' play against elie and horry would not be enough to overcome the combo of cassell and drexler outplaying harper and pippen. i just told you why the 95 heroes would beat the 96 role players.
