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Rick Gosselin's 2010 Draft redo

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by desihooper, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

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    Even Deion Sanders dont have that much recovery speed the way he's been gettin juked at the snap of the ball.....Roy Williams?????....if ol slew foot can get buy you uninterrupted then catchup speed aint the problem
     
  2. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

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    yeah...I'm sure he fell down alot during pre-draft workouts...you dont just become that sorry over the course of 3 weeks....Who the hell was he bump and runnin against in the pre-draft camps???...I'm sure they saw these flaws when they lined him up against Andre in preseason practices....But they chose to throw his azz out there...So live with the result..Dont blame Kareem...He cant draft himself
     
  3. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    To me the thing that stands out the most is the Patriots draft class of 2010 (McCourty, Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, and Hernandez) all picked up for bargain in late first and middle 2nd round. Many analyst thought McCourty was going to be bust or simply a punt return guy then Belichick makes them look like fools. McCourty already looks like Asante Samuel II. While we are stuck with Kareem "can't stand straight" Jackson. I love the picks of Gronkowski and Hernandez, guys that create matchup nightmares on every down with their size, speed, athleticism. Also Spikes and Cunningham are terrific pickups in the mid 2nd round. I wish Rick Smith had even half the brain of Belichick.
     
  4. desihooper

    desihooper Contributing Member
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    Gronkowski and Hernandez (along with the jettisoning of Randy Moss) has rendered one of the Jets' biggest defensive weapons - Revis Island - moot.

    Who do you put Revis on, Welker? It's a waste of his talent.

    The Patriots can go 4 or 5 wides and spread defenses out and dictate play with Brady and his WRs. Totally brilliant!
     
  5. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Keep in mind, the Patriots’ defense is not very good; in fact, it’s terrible: 30th overall and 31st against the pass. They give up nearly 23/points a game. Where they excel is turnovers – they’re +14 for the year. I would argue, unlike the Texans, they’ve been fortunate to routinely face average or worse QBs most of the year; the Texans have faced a murder’s row of top QBs, week after week. Last year, when the Texans faced much lesser QB competition, the primarily same defense was much better.

    So I don’t think the issue is McCourty v. Jackson, per se, but more Patriots v. Texans. Trade the players, and I would wager our perceptions would change dramatically, McCourty for the worse, Jackson for the better.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    That's a bit misleading, because some of those "murderers" are having pretty lousy seasons (McNabb and Manning) -> except when they play against the Battle Red, and they magically rediscover their HOF form and establish season-highs.

    They also managed to make Mark Sanchez look like John Elway. The only guy they managed to stop is the immortal Rusty Smith.

    Any reasonably competent QB is pretty much guaranteed a 300 yard game against the Texans this year.

    EDIT: they actually have avoided a lot of the top-rated passers thus far, just going by the stats, they've only had to face 4 of the top 10 passers, and 5 of the top 15. That doesn't seem inordinately difficult.
     
    #26 SamFisher, Dec 10, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  7. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    What metric are you using to rank QBs? Based on QB rating, they've faced 4 of the top 6 passers (Vick, Rivers, Cassel, Romo), and by season's end, they will have played 10 games against QBs that currently have a rating of 90+. (Note: Generally, 82-ish is considered average.)

    There are only 4 other 90+ QBs in the league. (Technically 5, but they don't play against Schaub.) Additionally, had he stayed healthy/sane, VY would have added two more games against 90+ QBs.

    Comparatively, NE has faced 4 QBs with a 90+ rating, and have two more scheduled (Orton and Rodgers) for a total of six.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    I'm using QB rating - your stats are wrong, btw, there aren't just 8 QB's with ratings over 90 - there are 15, 90 is the median, effectively. 82 gets you a nice slot at #20, in the bottom 1/3d of the league.

    Anyway. 4 of the top six, so what? You act like it's inordinately difficult when it's really not. Any team that plays in the NFC East or AFC West gets to say that as well.

    Hell look at Oakland, they have to play Rivers, Cassel, AND Orton...twice....that's 6 of their games against the top 10. AND they had to play Schaub and Roethlisberger.....AND they had to play Young, who as you say would be in the top 5 if he qualified.

    That's NINE games against the top 10. If the Texans have to face murderer's row, by facing 4 of these guys, once each...that's a serial killers lineup in comparison. Yet they are 9th in the league in passing yards allowed.
     
  9. desihooper

    desihooper Contributing Member
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    But they have this guy!!

    [​IMG]
    Nnamdi Asomugha

    We need to get ourselves one of him ;-)
     
    #29 desihooper, Dec 10, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  10. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    We've played 8 of the 90+ 14 QBs (not counting Schaub) totaling 10 games. So 10 of our 16 games - 60% - have or will be against QBs that currently have a 90+ rating. The Patriots will play 38% of their games (6) against 90+ QBs.

    (FYI: I accidently added games - we play Manning and Garrard twice - and shorted the # of QBs with 90+ ratings by 2 as a result. But I never said there were only 8. My numbers added up to 12 - but, again, it was a clerical error on my part. I was/am aware of the number of QBs with 90+ ratings.)

    Of the qualified passers this year, 82.4 is the (rough) median, and for years and years: 90+ was what separated good from average. Even if you use 90 as the median, the Patriots play 10 games against below-average QBs; the Texans a mere 3.

    I think you've jumped into the wrong argument here. I was comparing the Texans to the Patriots and how schedules may be impacting our perceptions of McCourty v. Jackson; not trying to excuse the Texans.

    They're not relevant to a discussion about the Texans/Patriots, nor are the 29 other teams.
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    I would argue this can be as much of a negative as a positive. When you play on a team that has a talent advantage at every position, you can look great without being so. For example, Alabama's front 4 crushed opponents, so their QBs were throwing earlier, which meant the CBs didn't have to cover as much.

    It's the same problem that makes big program QBs so inherently questionable - they had superior OLines and WRs so they had (1) more time to throw and (2) needed to be less accurate because their WRs get separation. Comparatively, a QB who had success at Delaware or Boston College is more ready in many ways because they had to properly learn to make reads, throw with less time, in tighter windows, etc.

    It's not always true - Sam Bradford, for example, was immediately NFL ready - but the "played the highest level of competition" cuts both ways when you're also playing with a huge talent advantage.
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Evidently, you're not, I'm reading ESPN.com, count for yourself, there are 15 QB's with ratings over 90:

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

    Either they're wrong or you're using the wrong stats.


    They're relevant to a discussion when you're claiming the Texans have played an inordinate number of high-powered passing offenses with top gun QB's vis-a-vis the rest of the NFL.

    They have not, especially in a league where nearly half the starters are doing over 90.

    Not even close. Every single team is going to have a similarly difficult schedule.

    It's like the people saying "Well, Aaron Brooks just had a tough night, he had to go against Monta Ellis/Steve Nash/Derrick Rose"

    It's not a tough night, it's the league, that's the job description.
     
    #32 SamFisher, Dec 10, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  13. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    The murder's row comparison is not very accurate. For a better comparison look at the common QB opponents of New England and Houston.

    Manning
    Houston (Loss): 433 YDS - 3 TD - 0 INT - 109.8 RATING
    Houston (Win): 268 YDS - 2 TD - 0 INT - 89.9 RATING
    New England (Loss): 396 YDS - 4 TD - 3 INT - 96.3 RATING

    Verdict: In both against Houston, Manning was pretty much unstoppable with a huge game in that loss early in the season. Now, the England games was the start of Manning's downward slide where he threw 3 picks, one in the final moments of the game near the endzone. Belichick unraveled Manning like he did in his Superbowl days. New England gets the advantage for taking out Manning in a much hyped nationally televised rivalry game.

    Rivers
    Houston (Win): 295 YDS - 4 TD - 1 INT - 137.2 RATING
    New England (Loss): 336 YDS - 1 TD - 1 INT - 85.1 RATING

    Verdict: Texans where completely obliterated by Rivers while the Patriots where able to grin out a 23-20 win by keeping Rivers in check.

    Sanchez
    Houston (Win): 315 YDS - 3 TD - 1 INT - 100.2 RATING
    New England (Loss): 164 YDS - 0 TD - 3 INT - 27.8 RATING

    Verdict: This is plain laughable. Sanchez looks like Brady when playing the Texans and then the Patriots neuter him in the biggest game of the year. This is the big difference between Belichick and Kubiak. Belichick will shutdown anyone given a week to plan and execute. Kubiak still can't figure out Manning after 5 seasons and 10 games against him.

    Flacco
    Houston TBD:
    New England (Loss): 285 YDS - 2 TD - 0 INT - 119.3 RATING

    Verdict: The Patriots held their ground and took a 23-20 victory from the Ravens. Flacco looked impressive but not good enough to win. Houston has yet to face Flacco on Monday Night so we'll see how that goes.

    New England is 4-0 against these QBs while Houston is 1-4. The Patriots also have won against Big Ben and still have games against Cutler and Rodgers upcoming in the next two weeks. So in the end the "murder's row" excuse is plain unsupported by evidence since New England has played most of the QBs Houston has and the Patriots came out with wins and kept the opposing QB in check if not completely embarrassed him such as in the case of Sanchez.
     
  14. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I'm beginning to wonder if you're even bothering to read my posts:
    The 15th QB with a 90+ rating is Matt Schaub. Due to this really complicated series of nonsensical rules I don't even really understand, uhm... the Texans can't play against their own QB. So I'm not counting him. Thus, again, there are 14 QBs with a 90+ rating. And the Texans have or are scheduled to play against them in 10 of their games.

    Again: I was comparing the Texans to the New England Patriots, not the rest of the NFL.

    Except for New England; see my last post which you evidently didn't read.
     
  15. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Forgetting something?
    New England (Win): 220 YDS - 3 TD - 0 INT - 124.3 RATING

    They play the Jets twice, FYI. But that's OK; I don't consider Sanchez an elite QB.

    The Patriots haven't played Manning a second time (and in Indy) and they haven't faced Vick, Cassel, Romo or Garrard. But other than those 5, yeah - they've played "most" of the same QBs: Fitzpatrick twice, Henne twice, Palmer, Favre, McCoy, Hill..... you know: the best of the best.
     
  16. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    Forgot that loss to Jets early in the season. As for your second point, Yeah the Patriots haven't played Vick, Cassell, Romo, and Garrard but then Texans haven't played Roethlisberger, Cutler, or Rodgers.

    Which group of QBs would you
     
  17. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    Forgot that loss to Jets early in the season. As for your second point, Yeah the Patriots haven't played Vick, Cassell, Romo, and Garrard but then Texans haven't played Roethlisberger, Cutler, or Rodgers.

    Which group of QBs would you say is the tougher bunch to play against?

    Look in the common QB opponents, the Patriots overwhelmed each and everyone of them especially the last 3 Sanchez, Manning, and Roethlisberger. So now the only debate is whether the other 3-4 names are any better than the ones I gave you above.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    So let's compare....how did New England, with their roster of weakling opponents like Mark Sanchez handle him for 2 games, and how did the Texans fare against the same?
     
  19. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    The Patriots haven't played Cutler or Rodgers, either. Not yet. Don't forget, the Texans still have Flacco, Garrard and Orton left.

    Look: It's not even close: The Texans have or will play ten games against QBs with 90+ ratings; the Patriots six.
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    and the texans get prison raped by QB's with ratings in the 80's....ergo so does your point brah.
     

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