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Ready The Clown Car: The First Batch of Democrats Are Ready To Announce Their 2020 Bids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Clinton was impeached for lying under oath to a grand jury. Regardless of what the House does, there is no way this gets 67 votes in the Senate.

    Practically (politically) speaking, as you say, this is a stupidly foolish vendetta that Congressional Democrats are pursuing. Nothing good will come out of this for them, practically speaking. And they could well lose the House in 2020, in no small part because of this act of emotionally motivated political excess.

    Tulsi Gabbard appears to understand this. Most of the rest of the Democrats, maybe no so much.
     
    #1761 MojoMan, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    snowconeman22 likes this.
  2. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Here's a pretty comprehensive list of emotionally motivated political excess to peruse...

    Part 1 at least...

    Part 2 Part 3 and that only gets us midway through July 2017.
     
  3. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Mojo I don’t think I’ve talked to you much one on one ... would you consider voting for a democrat is 2020? Or are you red/trump fo life ? No judgement , just curious .

    Also I’m not sure how much of a “political excess” it is like you say . I really think the majority of Americans despise trump and think he has done things to degrade the office / is immoral in general . Now whether or not that’s grounds for impeachment idk.... I study economics not law.

    In other news yang up to 8% in one poll . If the DNC doesn’t rig the game too heavily against him I think he’s winning the whole thing . He’s got a lot of appeal to libertarians and republicans and if all democrats care about is beating trump they should get out of his way
     
    MojoMan likes this.
  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I am an independent, not a Republican. I am think of myself as a Christian conservative American. While some people are confused about what it means to be conservative, what that means to me is that our government should be conducted effectively, responsibly, efficiently, with respect for our constitution and our laws, and also our national integrity. It means that we should apply laws even-handedly, with no special regard for skin color or other "racial" factors, or that sort of thing (No "Identity politics" or "Political correctness"). It also means that our fundamental rights contained in the Bill of Rights should be protected at all costs.

    I do not believe that there are any Democrats running at any level that support this perspective. So for that reason, I will not be considering any Democrats this time around. There are also more than a few Republicans who do not support my views. In the future, however, if the candidates who promote, defend and support my values start calling themselves Democrats, then at that point, I will vote for Democrats. Until then, I will vote for whoever will do the best job of advocating for and supporting the values that I hold dear.

    I did not vote for Trump in 2016, in part because of his behavior towards the other Republican candidates, but also because I knew he had been a Democrat most of his life and I was not convinced that he would govern in a way that respected the values and priorities that I described in my previous paragraph. On the second half of those concerns, Trump has done a spectacular job, and in fact I do not believe there is anyone alive that could have endured what he has endured or done what he has done. Simply amazing. On the personal behavior side, he still makes me cringe sometimes. But the work that he is doing is so important and so impressive, that I may vote for him in 2020. We'll see.

    You should go watch the speech that Trump gave to the UN today. It was truly epic.
     
    #1764 MojoMan, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  5. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    I’ll check it out sometime

    I’m more of a loose constructionist lol .

    But I’m an economist by trade so naturally I think that where market failures exist , then the government can (but not always should) intervene .

    I’m also a big history buff ... and I think it’s important to look back and try to understand the factors that influenced decision making at the time .... and then maybe discuss the current situation and see if some of those assumptions from the past still hold up

    As to your point about trump , I don’t think he’s doing that great of a job. I think our relationships with other countries have gone down across the board and the home economy , well no one knows **** about the economy lol . I think depending on which measurements you look at , you’ll have two different pictures .

    Thanks for the discussion
     
    mikol13 likes this.
  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Warren takes a narrow lead in two national polls out today:

    Quinnipiac
    Biden 25, Warren 27, Sanders 16, Buttigieg 7, Harris 3, Yang 2, O'Rourke 2, Booker 0, Klobuchar 2, Castro 2, Gabbard 1, Bennet 1, Delaney 0

    Economist/YouGov
    Biden 26, Warren 27, Sanders 16, Buttigieg 6, Harris 4, Yang 2, O'Rourke 2, Booker 0, Klobuchar 1, Castro 0, Gabbard 1, Bennet 1, Delaney 1

    This Ukraine stuff is another arrow in Joe Biden and it is not helping him. With a substantial part of the establishment left media pushing pretty openly for Warren, it should be no surprise to see these two switch places.

    It seems like Democrat voters are happy to let the Democrat mass media effectively pick their leaders for them. Go figure.
     
  7. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/...d-trumps-mammoth-advantage-in-free-media.html
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Not really. They're trying their damnedest to not impeach. They would much rather use the scandals in electioneering than to engage in a formal impeachment process that won't succeed. They're being pushed to impeach by (a) their base, (b) media, and (c) Trump's continuing abuses.
     
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  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Are you stating that Biden would be the organic choice of average non establishment democrats while Warren, the Wall Street buster, is the establishment candidate?

    Not trashing the take. It's just kinda... unique. The first I heard of this take.
     
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Well, the next time that they publish a clear accusation of what they are intending to impeach Trump for, will of course be the first time.
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I believe they have. I also believe you either are being insincere or are in a media bubble where you don't receive those "clear accusations".
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    OK then. Can you please explain concisely and without a lot of bull___ exactly what the charge is? For example, President Clinton was impeached for lying under oath to a grand jury.
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I do not believe that Biden is up to this task, as he is just too old. Of course he has run twice previously and did not make a very impressive showing on those occasions either. But at this point, time has overcome Joe and he needs to retire.

    Joe's lead has up until now been attributable to his credentials as Obama's VP, his strong name recognition, and the extreme weakness of the rest of the Democrat primary field. Biden was the initial establishment pick, with all that label typically implies. But it appears that they have concluded that he is not up to the task, as they do not think he can be competitive against Trump in the general election. That appears to be a correct assessment, in my opinion.

    The establishment elites appear to have preferred someone more politically moderate as an alternative to Joe, but their is not such person with sufficient gravitas left in the party. Also, the left wing base and much of the media, who are pretty openly practicing cultural Marxism, will not tolerate any new candidates for the Democrats rising up who do not comply with their extreme far left "Political correctness" agenda.

    So it appears that they have looked at their alternatives and Pocahontas is the best choice available. She is too far left but they cannot put up anyone very much to the right of her. It does not appear that she is exactly the "Establishment" candidate, which is interesting. If she continues to be strong and moves towards winning the nomination, we should discuss that more.
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Sure. Trump moments before contacting the Ukrainian President, privately without any consultation with advisers and other foreign world leaders withheld military aid to Ukraine. Following the withholding, Trump called the Ukrainian President while understanding that Trump was withholding military aid stated on multiple occasions that he should investigate Biden and his son, a political rival while leading with statements such as stating how much the US helps Ukraine before making the request.

    That is illegal and impeachable. I honestly don't know how on the nose Trump has to be for you to realize the illegality of the situation.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I just feel as if you are speaking out of your ass. Warren isn't really making fans amongst establishment democrats and wall street executives who donate to the DNC.
     
  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It's pretty laughable that he thinks he can post this and people would take him seriously.

    If I claimed to be a independent voter on the D&D, I expect NO ONE to believe me because I'm self aware and post sincerely.
     
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  18. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    That does not appear to be what actually happened. Certainly there is no evidence from this reality to back those assertions up. But I guess the Democrat left TDS fever dream infested echo chamber that you seem to glean your information from is echoing the points you made above.

    So, presuming for discussion's sake that what you said in your quote above was actually factual, what is the actual crime? This is not going to require a whole paragraph to explain, if there actually is one.
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Okay, what did happen?

    What part are you explicitly contesting?

    Also extorting a foreign leader to help your personal political ambitions isn't illegal? Okay.
     
  20. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    I don't think he's entirely wrong (outside of the idiotic attempt to say the left is practicing marxism).

    It's not that the Dems wouldn't MUCH rather have Pete/Harris over Warren if Bidens falls of. It's just that Pete/Harris don't have a chance, and that they would much rather have Warren over Bernie.
     

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