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Ready The Clown Car: The First Batch of Democrats Are Ready To Announce Their 2020 Bids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    What the hell? Maybe we should just focus on the proposals for what they are and what they will do for the American people, and not if they will help to win the presidency or not. You know, for us the American people's own well being, justice and democracy. Like JuanValdez, when I read the title I immediately thought it was silly, but then I finished reading what it was about and it makes complete sense. You didn't come to the same conclusion? If not...

    MojoMan, Why do you think it was okay to force legally married gay couples to file as individuals on taxes? Why would it be wrong for the president to fix that injustice retroactively?
     
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  2. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    The first thing I'd point out is that she's running to be the Democratic candidate at the moment. The common practice is to appeal more to the fringes in the primary and then race to the middle in the general. Of course, some voters will remember in November what she suggested in the primary, but I think she's succeeding in her prime objective of competing for the nomination.

    Secondly, the only reason I can think of to not actually like this proposal -- assuming you hear it, and not just see the Gay Reparations! headline -- is homophobia. This is a small tax reform about people's taxes being properly accounted. There's nothing very leftist or fringy about it. If it didn't come from Warren, I could even see Republicans voting for it because it is about fairness in taxation.

    Third, this is only one modest proposal to fill out her stat sheet of making many proposals. If she wants to run in the general as the policy wonk candidate, this idea adds to the mosaic of things that support her image as a person with many policy ideas. So, yeah, I think it works in the general too.
     
    #1162 JuanValdez, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Honestly, I think this could perhaps be fixed by the courts if legally married homosexual couples sued.
     
  4. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Why is anyone interested in a partisan hack's opinions on the Democrats field of candidates?
     
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  5. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Perhaps, but it would probably be better not to have to put those people through the stress of court. Also, not everyone who was wronged has the time or money to sue, this was the government's fault, they should fix it.
     
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  6. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Sure, but with Warren as a sponsor on legislation, no way McConnell allows it past the Senate, so a legislative remedy will be denied them. I suppose we could fault Warren for tying her name to this proposal instead of trying to find a different sponsor who could actually carry it over the finish line. But then we're not talking about big stakes here anyway.
     
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Like I said, forget about whether you personally support the issue for a minute. What this tells us is that she is more interested in virtue signalling, posing for the media and building her tribal credentials than it is about any real commitment to getting this issue addressed the way that she says that she wants, or, more importantly, about her building her case for being the next President of the United States.
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Like I said, it helps her in the primary, so this 'virtue signalling' is a positive step for winning the presidency.
     
  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Presidential candidates Elizabeth Warren and Julián Castro have announced their support for decriminalizing illegal immigration. Surely more will follow.

    Elizabeth Warren calls for decriminalizing illegal immigration

    Elizabeth Warren called for a repeal of the statute that criminalizes illegal entry into the U.S. The presidential candidate's stance came after fellow 2020 Democratic competitor Julián Castro said he also supported the measure.

    “I agree with Secretary Castro,” Warren told the Huffington Post in a Tuesday statement. “We should not be criminalizing mamas and babies trying to flee violence at home or trying to build a better future. We must pass comprehensive immigration reform that is in line with our values, creates a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants including our DREAMers, and protects our borders.”

    Castro said in April in a Medium post that the U.S. should overhaul its immigration system, which would include making illegal immigration a civil rather than criminal offense.

    "The truth is, immigrants seeking refuge in our country aren’t a threat to national security. Migration shouldn’t be a criminal justice issue. It’s time to end this draconian policy and return to treating immigration as a civil — not a criminal — issue," Castro said.

    Unauthorized entry into the U.S. has been a crime since the early 20th century.

    We used to play hide and seek when I was a child. Sometimes someone would call out "ally ally oxen free," which meant effectively everyone was awarded a free pass and the game was over. This policy will be heard around the world very much like that with regards to anyone who has aspirations of coming here in anything other than a legal manner.

    Can you say "Open borders"? I know you can.
     
    #1169 MojoMan, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Moveon.org has published a new straw poll the day before the first Democrat party debate tomorrow night. Of course there may not be a more openly striden group of out-of-the-closet partisan propagandists in this country than Moveon.org.

    So, who do they say is in the lead in their "straw poll"? Well, Elizabeth Warren, of course.

    From an article by NBC News:

    Elizabeth Warren jumps out to a big lead in MoveOn poll

    Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders top a new straw poll from the progressive group MoveOn.org, illuminating how the packed field of candidates is coming into focus for more left-leaning Democratic voters just before the first debate of the 2020 cycle.

    The poll, released Tuesday and first reported by NBC News, shows Warren is the top choice of 38 percent of MoveOn's members nationwide — and the top choice of voters surveyed in the early-voting states of California, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina.

    Sanders comes in second nationwide — 17 percent say he's their first choice — trailing Warren by more than 20 points. Former Vice President Joe Biden (15 percent) and Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Indiana (12 percent), are the only other candidates to earn double-digit support; Sen. Kamala Harris of California comes in with 7 percent.​

    Just one little observation, if I may. California is not an early voting state. It is the most populous state. It is the state with the most electoral votes. And it is very possibly the most left leaning state. But it does not hold its primary until Super Tuesday, along with 12 other states and one territorial caucus.

    Truly unbelievable.
     
  11. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    This is a poll of move on members a small percentage on the Democratic electorate.

    Why do think this is pertinent?
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Why did they think it is pertinent, is the more pertinent question.
     
  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Truly.
     
  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    I can think of one...
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Do you mean where you get your cartoons and memes from?
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I'm not afraid. But, I do recognize a move like this (they wouldn't have the votes in the Senate and would need to make some much more moderate Grand Bargain legislation to change anything, but whatever) would be very traumatic politically.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    MojoMan likes this.
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    If Biden really is being kicked to the curb and Elizabeth Warren is the new current media favorite, that is to a significant degree because there is no clear, solid moderate Democrat that has the chops to fill that lane right now. (Elizabeth Warren is not even close to being a moderate, and anyone who thinks she is, is just mindlessly spewing media invented nonsense.)

    Well, it is not impossible to fix that, those Democrats with moderate tendencies need to start engaging in this process more and they need to start vetting some of the lesser known candidates, a few of who actually do have some moderate tendencies remaining. Apparently one of the leading Democrat opinion leaders in Iowa (The first contest in the primaries - actually a caucus) is doing just that.

    ‘Giant in Iowa politics’ endorses Steve Bullock

    Montana Gov. Steve Bullock won’t appear on the debate stage in Miami tonight, but he still notched a high-profile win Wednesday. In an early state that’s critical to his strategy, longtime Story County Democratic chair Jan Bauer told POLITICO she is backing Bullock for president.

    The endorsement from Bauer, one of the most recognizable names in Iowa caucus politics, is considered a coup for Bullock. Story County is home to Ames and Iowa State University. “Jan is a giant in Iowa politics. She’s loved across the state and known for being a tireless advocate for her candidates,” said Sean Bagniewski, chairman of the Polk County Democrats in Des Moines. “She’s one of the few people whose endorsement is as important as any of Iowa’s elected officials.”

    The Montana governor, who entered the race in mid-May, has already won the endorsement of Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, one of the most popular Democrats in the state.​

    This bracket in the contest is not empty, as Biden is supposedly still in it. But as Biden has been casting aside his decades long stances that have made him the favorite as a moderate, his poll numbers have fallen precipitously. This cause and effect reaction should surprise exactly nobody. Combine that with the impression he has left in his few appearances - that he is too old and weak to do this - that has left a gaping hole open for somebody to fill.

    Will Governor Bullock fill that gaping hole? It is too soon to tell, but as nature abhors a vacuum, it sure seems to me that somebody will. And that is certainly not going to be Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, who are competing aggressively at the other end of the ideological spectrum for the support of the activist far left.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    When you mean "moderate", do you mean the exact type of corporoate Democrats like Hillary Clinton who were figure heads for Wall Street and our defense contractors who survived on massive super PACs and inspires no excitement in to go to the polls that eventually led to Donald Trump squeaking by?

    I mean, that's probably what you want. You want a corporate centrist who inspires as little turnout by the Democrat/liberal base as possible.
     

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