1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ready The Clown Car: The First Batch of Democrats Are Ready To Announce Their 2020 Bids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    28,446
    Likes Received:
    43,639


    Killer ad. Sad billionaire lmao.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,125
    Likes Received:
    13,532
    Lol. I don't think they should re-empower super-delegates. But, one, it's not corrupt. And two, if it has a stench of corruption, we have a sulphur pit on just the other side of the aisle -- the party is trying to cancel primary elections altogether to keep challengers from embarrassing the president, and the Republican Senate is excusing the president for trying to game the election with phony foreign investigations! In that context, party process regarding super-delegates is hardly worth a mention.
     
    Nook likes this.
  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Incomprehensible though this may be to you, the Democrat's convention rules and their usage of superdelegates has nothing to do with President Trump.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    31,057
    Likes Received:
    14,611
    MojoMan likes this.
  6. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,125
    Likes Received:
    13,532
    That post wasn't so much about Trump as it was about your ability to comprehend what corruption looks like. A private organization like a political party using the governance mechanisms they've already defined to make a decision about how they will choose their own nominee in a transparent way is not corruption. Some people might be unhappy with motives for doing so or the outcome it might produce, but it is totally and completely above board. It is totally unlike other recent examples of corruption we've seen. If they vote for it, they'll do so within the confines of their organization's rules. If they vote for it, they do so to achieve the ends of the party, not their own personal benefit. If they vote for it, they'll do it officially, not lying about and hiding what they've done. If they vote for it, they do not abuse any public office in so doing. Those are the markers of real corruption.
     
    Nook and Andre0087 like this.
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    The DNC changed their convention rules in part because there was a perception among many, especially among Bernie Sanders supporters, that the primary, debate, financing and convention processes were corrupt during the 2016 primary cycle. There were lengthy public speeches made during the reform process, a good bit of which was telecast on CSPAN, as the DNC made efforts to heal divides, repair damage and hopefully prepare for a more trusted and widely accept primary and convention process in 2020 that will not be regarded as corrupt.

    The changes to the superdelegate rules were a compromise and did not go as far as many thought that they should, but were nevertheless a small step in the right direction. For the DNC to change those rules back - after the primary voting process has started - apparently for the purpose of undermining the candidacy of a single designated candidate (Bernie Sanders) will be seen by a great many Democrat supporters and voters as a deeply corrupt move by the DNC, especially those on the far left "progressive" wing of the party, and among that group, even more so among Bernie Sanders supporters.

    To be fair, I do not believe that even the DNC is so corrupt - and stupidly so - as to do something as crass and foolish as this alteration of the convention rules after the voting has already begun. Surely not. They cannot be at the same time both that corrupt and that stupid. They cannot be, can they?
     
  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    lol
     
    ThatBoyNick and MojoMan like this.
  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Chris Matthews shares his feelings about the Iowa caucuses today on Morning Joe.



    Chris does not appear to be feeling all tingly this time around.
     
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,125
    Likes Received:
    13,532
    I do agree with you that it'd be foolish to change the rules at this time, and honestly don't put much stock by the chatter that they're thinking about doing so. It would damage the brand of the DNC to do it and potentially alienate some customers at a time when they can't afford to lose anyone. I know Bernie Bros will throw around the word "corruption" too, but it's not and it's a really sensitive season to be throwing that word around in Democratic circles.

    It'd be like saying James Harden getting Morey to trade Chris Paul was corruption. It might be smart, it might be dumb, it might make or dash championship hopes, it might alienate fans, but it's a different thing from, say, Kevin McHale signing an under-the-table contract with Joe Smith -- which was also dumb but corrupt too.
     
  11. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    28,446
    Likes Received:
    43,639


    Damn this another really good ad.
     
    MojoMan likes this.
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    No, it would be like the NBA saying that James Harden makes too many three pointers, so they are going to change the distance of the three point line in the playoffs - after the playoffs had already started.

    The DNC went through careful, very public deliberations to reform these rules. If they had wanted to keep them like they were, they certainly could have decided to do that at the time. But to wait until you see who has the momentum in the primary contest and then change the convention rules very specifically to thwart the ability of one candidate to win the nomination - after the voting has started - that would be breathtakingly corrupt and only the most unprincipled establishment supporting partisan hacks would dare come out publicly to try to defend it.

    This would almost certainly cause the Democrats far more harm than good.

    Which is why I believe they will not do it. It is just some talk by a few people. I do not believe it will happen.
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,125
    Likes Received:
    13,532
    ... if the league bylaws had a provision to allow the competition committee to adjust the rules at that time.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    ... if the DNC bylaws had a provision to allow the convention committee to adjust the rules at that time.
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    off to a roaring start

     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,125
    Likes Received:
    13,532
    If they have no provision to allow them to do so I will be very surprised indeed if they did it. But of course the convention does have the authority to do it if they had the will. It's all a fart in the wind though because there actually doesn't seem to be any appetite to do it and the story is only getting ink to get people riled.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
  18. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Politico, an establishment Democrat left leaning publication if ever there was on, assesses the Iowa Caucuses as a "Total Meltdown"

    'It’s a total meltdown': Confusion grips Iowa with no official results in sight

    A technical meltdown in Iowa Monday night set off bedlam in the critical first contest for the Democratic presidential nomination, triggering competing claims of victory and stoking doubts about the legitimacy of the eventual outcome.

    No results had been reported by midnight Eastern, and the Iowa Democratic Party said on Tuesday morning that it planned to release caucus results “as soon as possible today,” while also emphasizing that its ultimate goal is to ensure the “integrity and accuracy of the process.”

    “They are matching the paper worksheets by hand,” an adviser to one of the top tier campaigns said. The party said only 35 percent of the results were in and none of it was yet verified. “They literally have no verified results right now so we won’t know anything until sometime Tuesday.”

    “We have no sense when results might come in," said Anita Dunn, a senior adviser to Biden. "We are, as other campaigns are, very concerned with what they might release: the alignment numbers are not adding up."

    “It’s a total meltdown,” she added.

    Tempers also flared during a second call between Iowa Democratic Party Chair Troy Price and the campaigns early Tuesday morning. Biden chief counsel Dana Remus repeatedly insisted that the campaigns be allowed into the “auditing process to give us confidence so we can then be your advocates in restoring confidence.”​

    This is not as hard as they are making it and if they had just developed a system to match the worksheets by hand from the start, this all would have been done in a timely manner. For decades all of these states managed these sorts of caucuses by manually matching paper worksheets and tally lists. It is a perfectly good way to manage an election of this sort.

    Let this be a lesson to everyone who is not an irretrievable dimwit. Just because you use an "App" (a software program intended to achieve a specific productive purpose) to manage information, that does not mean that the information is correct or better than what you can produce with a Big Chief tablet and a #2 pencil.

    A better way to manage this would have been something like this:
    1. Perform all of the precinct counts locally and post the results on a whiteboard or a PowerPoint slide for all to see.
    2. Record the more detailed data on spreadsheets and Word documents and email these to the DNC headquarters in Des Moines and to whoever else it is determined should have a copy.
    3. Have one person at the headquarters combine the summary information onto a master spreadsheet and add all the votes and delegates together from the precincts like that.
    4. Confirm these numbers by affirmation of witnesses, perhaps by sworn affidavits signed locally and sent in separately, by email, fax, carrier pigion, or whatever.
    5. Re-confirm verbally by phone with as many people as deemed necessary
    6. When everything is determined to be correct, report these results out to the news media and let them broadcast the results in tabular form on television.
    7. Distribute the results periodically in report form, by email, printed copy, or whatever is deemed appropriate, at appropriate intervals along the way.

    Or something like that.



    No specially designed "App" required. Easy, peasy. Of course everyone wants to watch closely to make sure nobody is trying to cheat or nobody is just flat getting it wrong. But this really is not that complicated.
     
  19. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,125
    Likes Received:
    13,532
    Politico is a pretty respectable rag, but why would you expect an establishment Democrat left leaning publication to NOT call it a total meltdown?
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    I give up. Why?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now