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Ready The Clown Car: The First Batch of Democrats Are Ready To Announce Their 2020 Bids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Almost all of her votes would go to him if she dropped out. If you take down Buttegeig, for instance, you are just funneling more votes to Bloomberg or Biden.
     
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  2. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    I understand that, but I was making the point that things were just sort of working themselves out naturally. He’s surging; she’s declining and paying the price for the arguably terrible campaign she’s ran. Is there even a need to hit her?

    Either way, I guess it sets the stage for an interesting debate on Tuesday. I’m sure the moderators will pounce on any perceived tension between the two.
     
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  3. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Voting in Iowa and New Hampshire is in less than a month, wins would be huge.

    But I would disagree that this is a "hit". Any "hit" involving saying she's the #2 option is a damn friendly one. To me, it's simply asking his volunteers to state the differences between the two, you certainly won't be seeing Bernie call her a liar, or Pocahontas, he's just wants to state some policy differences, and differences on bills they have voted on... which is damn fair IMO.
     
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  4. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    “Hit” is broad and vague, but any organized effort to “attack” (also broad and vague) Warren by the Sanders campaign could easily be described as either of the two, and that’s what his volunteers are being instructed to do, according to that article.

    I’m just making the point it’s perhaps better to just let things sort themselves out naturally since he’s doing so well and her stock appears to be fading. Going on the offensive against fellow Democrats doesn’t come without risk.
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Yep. This is a campaign, which is a competition for votes among the candidates. In a field as large as this one, there is overlap between the natural constituencies of certain candidates. Between no two candidates is this overlap more apparent than between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

    The voters have a choice for who to vote for when they go to the caucuses in Iowa, three weeks from today. These 'scripts' appear to be designed to define and clarify that choice, especially for those voters most likely to be open to voting for Bernie Sanders. This is about as gentle as you can be while still engaging in the task at hand.

    Competition between these two was inevitable. Right now, Sanders appears to be in the stronger position and it does not feel like Warren is going to be able to respond effectively, even to these relatively benign tactics. But if she has a move to make, now is definitely the time to make it.
     
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  6. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I think a large percentage of her vote would go to Pete they have a lot of overlap.
     
  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    There was a lot of talk about this Corey Booker being a national caliber candidate, largely because of his "Identity politics" credentials, going back to his initial election to the Senate. It is encouraging to see many people are demanding more from some of these people than just their skin color and that sort of thing.

    Corey Booker is not that guy. He is not cut from the right cloth to be a serious candidate for President. Not now and not 20 years from now. Hopefully this effort puts an end to these sorts of aspirations by him once and for all.
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Doubt we've seen the last of him. What I consistently hear is that, in person, he is very charismatic. When he meets people or does speeches. From what I've seen, it doesn't translate well to the soundbite format of the news. But that's probably fixable. If we just wanted to vote for a black person, there are millions of those out there. It's a little ridiculous that you stop your political analysis at the color of his skin.
     
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  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    No, not really.
     
  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Well, we will see if he tries again. Even if he does, it is hard to see it going anywhere. He is a bit strange and does not seem to have "It," whatever that is.

    It is not me that stops my political analysis at the color of a person's skin. In fact, I do not start there, stop there or care about that very much at all. But most people who associate with the Democrat left clearly do. But without that aspect of his candidacy, what was it that made his candidacy interesting or in any way compelling - to really anyone?

    For example, Joe Biden was the VP and has been around for 40 years or whatever. Sanders is sincere, passionate and is consistent in his promotion of socialism. Warren is an academic that likes to take cracks at wall street and who is currently promoting medicare for all. Bloomberg is richer than Cresus. Buttigieg is gay and a smooth talker. Harris is black and a woman.

    Leave out his skin color and tell me what it is that makes Booker an interesting candidate for President of the United States. To be fair, he just quit the race because most Democrats apparently agree to some extent with what I am saying here.
     
    #2351 MojoMan, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  12. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Lol you are so dense.
     
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  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    In my experience, the Democrat left is far more policy driven with what many consider not pragmatic solutions that are idealistic.

    The GOP right is far more culturally driven. One reason for this is the Democratic left doesn't value religous ideology in their ideological platform while the GOP right does. The GOP right cares far more about immigration and the percieved loss of "tradional" American culture.

    You can see this in how they vote for their presidential candidates. The GOP right selected the least nuanced candidate in terms of policy details out of the field of 17 candidates in the primary and concentrated on cultural platitudes such as a attack on "religous liberty" and immigrants from not Caucasian regions ruining American culture, economy and tradition.

    The Democratic left's two most liked candidates, Bernie and Warren, discuss economic issues and their solutions in far more nuanced manners even if many people here disagree with their viability and pragmatism.
     
    #2353 fchowd0311, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    You where the one claiming he would he was a national caliber candidate
     
  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    No, I was the one who started the "Ready the clown-car" thread, with him very much in mind as one of the leading clowns.
     
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  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Dude you where the one constantly harping about the prospects of Booker and Harris and claiming they were front runners.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Bernie Sanders appears to be surging late in Iowa, according to Politico, the establishment hive-off from the Washington Post (they are not natural Sanders backers).

    Sanders surges as progressives flock to him over Warren

    The consolidation of left-wing support is a remarkable turnaround for Sanders.

    Something’s happening with Bernie Sanders that looked unlikely to many a few months ago: Progressive leaders and organizations are lining up behind him, not Elizabeth Warren, in the lead-up to voting. Two groups run by young people — the Sunrise Movement, which seeks to combat climate change, and Dream Defenders, which advocates for people of color — endorsed him last week. He’s also won the backing of People’s Action and the Center for Popular Democracy, which together claim more than 1.5 million members, as well as three lawmakers in the so-called “Squad” and liberal-minded labor unions.

    The consolidation of left-wing support is a remarkable turnaround for Sanders. In September, the Working Families Party became the first major national progressive group to endorse a candidate when it picked Warren — despite siding with Sanders in 2016. Warren was surging at the time, and looked poised to overtake Sanders as the leader of the progressive movement and a frontrunner for the nomination.

    But now it’s Sanders with the wind at his back. The endorsements, on display here Sunday when Rep. Rashida Tlaib and the Sunrise Movement joined him for a rally attended by more than 900 people, are giving him a jolt of momentum weeks ahead of the Iowa caucuses and supplying him with fresh volunteers in key areas.​

    Are you guys feeling the Bern?
     
  18. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Dude, I was the one posting stories from the Democrat left press touting this Democrat team of all stars, with Booker virtually always being mentioned, at least early on. That was not me endorsing the guy. It was just my observations about how he was being presented and considered by the Democrat left and the media.
     
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    According to CNN (Sources say...), Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren to her face in 2018 that he 'did not believe a woman could win' in 2020.

    Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, sources say

    The two agreed that if they ultimately faced each other as presidential candidates, they should remain civil and avoid attacking one another, so as not to hurt the progressive movement. They also discussed how to best take on President Donald Trump, and Warren laid out two main reasons she believed she would be a strong candidate: She could make a robust argument about the economy and earn broad support from female voters.

    Sanders responded that he did not believe a woman could win.

    The description of that meeting is based on the accounts of four people: two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting.

    "It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016."​

    CNN is truly one of the top world leaders when it comes to creating and promoting fake news. I do knot know if this is true. Bernie Sanders says it is a lie. Warren's team is declining to comment.

    It appears that the battle between these two in Iowa is getting more and more chippy, almost by the minute. And while Sanders 'script' was relatively benign in the scheme of things, this is positively incindiary.

    Unless Warren comes out and discredits these accusations, this is almost certainly going to be the moment when the gloves were taken completely off by these two. Stay tuned....
     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    These hooks you've listed are not good reasons for voting for these other candidates. If I were to follow your pattern, though, Booker is the champion of the little guy.

    Booker and Harris were early entrants and they were telegraphing their intention to run even before that. And they're both US Senators, a group from which many a nominee has come. Small wonder the news talked about it. But you've been insisting on this narrative from the start that each of these candidates are prospects not on their own merits but on their meta-characteristics. Biden only has a draw because he was VP, Sanders only because he's a socialist, Warren because she is a liberal elitist, Booker because he's black, Harris because she's black and a woman, Beto because he's an SJW, Butigieg because he's gay. No consideration for the possibility that a candidate might say or do things that find resonance with voters and make them into supporters.
     
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