Check the dates of those occurrences. Kobe and Kidd were over a decade ago. Same with Rice was arrested 7 years after he retired over a decade ago, Cassell's incident was with another guy outside a bar over a decade ago, and Allen Iverson's wasn't been personally charged with a violent crime while he was actually in the NBA. Since that time the NBA has done an increasingly better job about handling such cases. I don't need to see every criminal offense result in immediate suspension or deactivation, just the most egregious crimes where they have done a reasonable NBA investigation and they have gathered enough evidence to make a reasonable determination. For example, if you look through the NBA crime library for the last year there are a handful of domestic violence cases. The vast majority of cases are DUI without any injuries reported and a handful of common assaults. http://nbacrimelibrary.com/ In terms of domestic violence... Greg Oden in 08/14 ... the season hasn't started and as of right now he's not on a team James Johnson in 06/14 ... the season has not started yet Dante Cunningham 03/14 ... All charges were dropped within a few weeks, and he's currently suing the person who charged him. During that period NO NBA team would sign him http://www.lillooetnews.net/sports/...er-domestic-assault-charges-dropped-1.1320083 In other words, the record of the last year for the NBA wasn't perfect, but it was far from the sort of circus that the NFL has been. Now, just take a browse through the NFL... http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/ I'll be watching to see what they do with Oden and James Johnson, but let's just say that right now the NBA has earned my benefit of the doubt when it comes to how they are handling criminal cases.
lololololol I think the NBA's "success" regarding this is that they do a much better job of not letting this stuff get out to the public! I took a look at the nice links you shared--the number of arrests between the NBA and NFL look about the same to me after skimming through both, so I'm not sure how you find the NBA any more palatable than the NFL regarding personal conduct. I think the most baffling thing about all this is how everyone is just absolutely aghast at these incidents (i.e. Rice, Peterson, etc). While both of these incidents represent extreme behavior, they are by no means exceptional occurrences! Multiple athletes and celebrities commit acts of domestic violence every year for as long as I can remember, and no one really cares... until Ray Rice's KO punch gets caught on tape and everyone is shocked and wants to crucify the guy. What do people think normally happens in these cases? The guy slaps the woman's wrist?! This stuff happens all the time, and as a society, we've accepted it as normal (which is obviously a bad thing and needs to change), but now because the media has sensationalized it, Ray Rice is the worst guy ever?? Talk about bad timing for Rice! Further, this happens all the time with normal people--or at least, who society accepts as normal. Thankfully, I did not grow up around this, but I had a couple friends with parents who physically fought, and they never got police involved (to my knowledge)... even if there were charges, these things aren't brought to light by mass media! If everybody got the Ray Rice, and possibly Adrian Peterson, treatment, a significant chunk of the male population would be shunned by society, lose their jobs and publicly shamed. To be clear, I'm not defending either of these acts--I am absolutely and unequivocally against all forms of violence. That said, I do believe in consistency and not letting sensationalism skew my perception. If you want to be appalled, go ahead, but it strikes me as just manufactured rage if you did not also feel the same for every one of these instances in the past.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Breaking?src=hash">#Breaking</a>: attorney Gloria Allred will hold a news conference in ATL about a NEW allegation of domestic violence in the NFL this afternoon</p>— Kaitlyn Ross 11Alive (@kaitlynross1) <a href="https://twitter.com/kaitlynross1/status/512259158058754048">September 17, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I can't hypothesize about an arrest that never happened. That's like hypothesizing that a millionaire must be doing illegal things in spite of having no data or arrests to confirm that assumption. Similar numbers of arrests, but the TYPES of arrests are different. NBA is a far higher proportion of DUI/excessive drinking. The NFL has a significantly higher ratio of violent arrests and if you actually look up the particulars of the arrests tend to be more aggressive in term of the types of violence. That isn't to say DUI's aren't bad, but I don't see the need for leagues to act aggressively in standard DUI cases (without injury/deaths) when most states consider the violation to be a misdemeanor. If the States consider it a misdemeanor, then it's not considered a major violation of community standards by the populace. If they did, it would be a felony. I realistically only expect a sports league to set a tone in the most violent and reprehensible crimes. Murder, sexual assault, domestic violence, child abuse, extreme cases of assault, animal cruelty, etc is enough for me. It's not fair or realistic to expect NFL, NBA, NHL, etc to take a stand over EVERY potential infraction. For example, I'm not going to burn a league at the stake for not suspending a guy caught speeding. I don't expect them to be paragons of good behavior, just do a reasonable job of trying to set a reasonable example.
Are you sure about that? The two databases are setup differently, but in your NBA database, there are a total of 428 crimes listed. Of those, 107 are either Assault / Battery or Sexual Assault / Rape - exactly 25%. The NFL database doesn't have totals that I see, but looking through the first 2 pages (30 crimes), you have 8 that would qualify - or 27%. Is that really that different? There are certainly a lot more arrests in total in the NFL - but there are also about 5 times as many players to start with. There were several players in the NBA in the last few years accused of assault and nothing significant was done, as far as I know (Kendrick Perkins, Jared Sullinger, Jordan Hill, etc). Perkins: Details: While leaving a nightclub, Perkins’ car bumped into another automobile. An altercation followed, where Perkins punched moth a male and a female passenger in the head, and was subsequently arrested for assault. This was his second career arrest, both with the Thunder. Sullinger: Details: Sullinger turned himself in several days after allegedly assaulting his girlfriend following an argument after she found evidence on his cell phone that he was cheating on her. His girlfriend started packing her bags to leave when Sullinger pushed her onto a bed, pinned her, then tossed her onto the ground before smashing her cell phone. Hill: Details: While playing for the Rockets, Hill was arrested for assaulting his girlfriend in his home. He was subsequently traded to the Lakers the following month, and eventually pleaded no contest to misdemeanor assault charges.
Sullinger's charges were completely dismissed and he's currently suing his ex-girlfriend for false accusations. There was no physical evidence of injury in his case. Perkins was arrested for assault, however I view a multi-person altercation differently than a domestic assault or an extreme assault. This took place outside of a club, and there was multiple parties involved. Also, he didn't instigate the incident and there were conflicting reports from both sets of parties. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/n...-face-earning-misdemeanor-234819444--nba.html The Jordan Hill case in 2012 was a failure on the part of the Lakers and the NBA. However, I can see how the NBA and the Lakers would have had some issues in terms of initial discipline as the victim did not go to the authorities until a full month after the reported incident and there was a lack of physical evidence to judge the severity of the incident. http://www.tmz.com/2012/09/27/jordan-hill-lakers-domestic-violence-girlfriend-choking-no-contest/ Here are the particulars of the incident. http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2...is-girlfriend-darlene-luna-download-document/ That said, they should have suspended him some games for the incident once he entered a plea bargain. Still, none of them were anywhere near the level of the egregious missteps of the NFL this year. I can live with the occasional screw up as long as it isn't too extreme and doesn't happen often. The NFL managed to cross that threshold rather impressively.
I am assuming you will not be watching the NBA either, as they have an arrest rate of over 2X that of the NFL. I am sure Greg Oden will get an indefinite suspension like Ray Rice? PJ Tucker sure received a tough suspension...... James Johnson and the assault charge... the NBA really taught him a lesson... Kendrick Perkins assaulting two people... he missed months for that one... oh no he didn't. Dante Cunningham choking his girlfriend and making terrorist threats... that resulted in a long suspension.... oh no it didn't. Raymond Felton threatening his wife with a firearm..... Jared Sullinger commiting assault....... Yawn...... DeAndre Liggins..... assault of a woman.... Ty Lawson....... assault of a woman...... Terrence Williams...... assault of a woman...... Terrence Jones...... kicking a homeless person..... Daniel Gibson...... assault THESE ARE ONLY IN THE LAST 18 MONTHS This list doesn't include your garden variety drug bust or DUI, and there are players NOT on the list I am sure. Reality: The reality is the NBA hasn't been any better than the NFL. The reason the NFL treatment is now a big deal is everyone got to see Ray Rice knockout his future wife. If you want to watch the NBA, go ahead, but drop the sanctimonious bull****.
Really? Ray Rice was accepted into a first time offender program his record will be clean in 7 years if he stays out of trouble. So if we are going to use the "what he was convicted of" defense for the NBA, isn't the same true for the NFL? After all, Rice never plead guilty and received no jail time. The answer ofcourse is no, Rice deserved longer than a 2 game suspension.... and so does a majority of the NBA players that were charged with assault. The ONLY reason this is a big deal now is the video tape. If there was tape of an all star caliber player decking his wife, we would hear the same about the NBA.
A diversion program IS an admission of guilt. It's essentially an administrative option to escape having a criminal record. You don't go into a diversion program if you have no culpability. A plea bargain IS an admission of culpability as well, otherwise there wouldn't be a bargain. Charges dismissed or found not guilty are the ONLY situations where you truly have no admission of culpability. And let's not group all types of assaults together. There is a difference between an altercation with strangers, a domestic assault, child abuse, assaults in a group altercation, etc, etc. Break out the types of assaults and actually look at the case details and the two leagues look very different.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Panthers?src=hash">#Panthers</a> DE Greg Hardy has agreed to go on Commish Exempt list. Paperwork pending.</p>— Jason Cole (@JasonPhilCole) <a href="https://twitter.com/JasonPhilCole/status/512304969073307648">September 17, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I am well aware of what a plea bargain is, being a former federal prosecutor and an attorney for many years... His record will be sealed if he is a good trooper for the next few years and only hits his wife in private. So now, to defend your point, you want to set up arbitrary deliniations on what is "bad" and "not so bad"? You are really going out of your way to give the NBA a pass.
Also, to be clear a diversion program is NOT an admission of guilt in many jurisdictions and I assume that is true with New Jersey. The case is suspended pending the completion of the program and charges are dropped if the program is completed. If the program is not completed, the charges are refiled.
I am also aware of the particulars of PTI and the specifics of prosecution. In my youth (a few decades ago) I spent time working with prosecutors, public defenders, criminal lawyers, and advocate groups while working with a legislative state justice committee in the drafting, interpretation, amendment and analysis of criminal legislation. Those laws you followed as a prosecutor? Many of those laws went through the hands of people like me (even though some legislators were idiots and ignored what we told them anyway... gotta love elected officials who think constitutionality isn't an issue and vote yes anyway). You're talking about the particulars of an "admission of guilt" as a technical legal term. In essence it is an alternative to being taken to trial and is usually used when the person in question has a significant probability of actually being convicted. In other words, if there wasn't a decent case against you, and you weren't facing the prospect of an actual criminal record, then you wouldn't apply for PTI. And yes, when I am judging content for consumption by my nephew or what I am willing to tolerate in terms of behavior from an organization I will gradiate and attempt to consider the context of those league and team decisions. I am not going to judge an organization that lets a bar fight slide in the same way that I judge an organization that lets a case of child abuse slide. Nor am I going to let slide a case of domestic violence slide the same way I let a case of two guys fighting each other slide. Is it an arbitrary and subjective standard? Of course. It's like any "community standard". Community standards are at their core subjective as they are different in every community. Sports leagues will never punish players the way I would. Sometimes they go too far, sometimes they don't go far enough. I accept that because I'm not the guy who runs the league or owns the team. However, when those values are Too far from my own set of values as has occurred in the NFL, then I will exercise my rights as a consumer to not consume that content. As for the history, I tend to judge organizations on things they do in recent years. I am not going to hold league behavior against them forever. Organizations change, society changes, community standards evolve... as such what was completely acceptable 10 years ago or more acceptable 10 years ago is sometimes not nearly as acceptable today. I had my opportunities to exercise my value judgement in previous years. For whatever reasons I chose to exercise that judgement in the way that I did at the time. In most cases I remained with the NBA, however in other cases I walked away from the NBA. During the Kidd/Kobe years, I stopped watching for almost 2 years due to the NBA's handling of those cases. Are my standards more stringent now? Probably. However, just as society and communities evolve so do I as a human being. When I was 20 years old I generally wouldn't care and would just say that it's private business. As I've grown older I find myself more concerned about my social responsibilities as a member of society and try to behave accordingly. This evolution in values and perspective is why I was willing to quit the NBA earlier this year over the Donald Sterling situation. Would I have done that when I was a young man watching Bird and Dr. J? No. However, we all grow older and change. If you try to map out a human beings values and social systems over a lifetime you'll never find consistency. That's okay. The most we can hope to do is maintain some sort of internal consistency from day to day. And for me to remain internally consistent with my own personal values, I would have had no choice but to stop watching the NFL as I felt they had gone too far.
PTI isn't an admission of guilt. It is that simple. You earlier attempted to break down the charges against particular NBA players and rationalize the punishment their received. You in part relied on what the outcome of the case was. The outcome of the Ray Rice trial? Suspended trial with PTI. There was no guilty charge, etc. Just be consistent. If you are going to draw lines between Ray Rice and Perkins (who has been charged with assault twice), and rationalize it by saying well he fought with men, not a woman.... so be it, but you still have a huge list of NBA players in just the last few years charged with assault of a woman, pulling a gun on a woman and a number of other serious crimes..... and they received minimum punishment from the NBA.
PTI isn't an admission of guilt, however when someone enters PTI is does greatly increase the probability of "culpability". Guilt is a specifically legal term. Culpability is responsibility, IE, if you have enough evidence for someone to enter a PTI program, then there's a good chance that there was culpability. And I wasn't just looking at their conviction/dismissal of charges, I was looking at the evidence as it was presented. The first charge against Perkins occurred during the lockout. The NBA could not have penalized Perkins during that period, and even if they could they would have revoked it before the season began due to dismissal. And all charges were dismissed before the lockout ended. The second charge took place outside a bar with multiple people involved and conflicting reports. In that sort of scenario the only way you can reasonably apply discipline is if you can get a clear idea of exactly what happened. And go through the cases individually. What is this "huge" list of crimes where if you go through the police reports, the statements and the relevant reporting that you can say with some certainty that you know what happened? IE, not multiple conflicting witness reports, no video or photographic evidence, etc. And the reason I consider domestic violence differently is that domestic violence nearly always has a massive imbalance in physical strength and training. Additionally, historically domestic violence is rarely a "one off" event. This is confirmed through extensive data on the subject. The responsibility of society to proactively protect individuals who are in vulnerable positions is greater than that to protect individuals who are not nearly as vulnerable. This is a generally accepted precept of society in how we do not allow sexual predators to work with children, how the law requires the removal of children from threatening situations FIRST and investigate later, and it applies to some degree to cases of domestic violence. I don't view domestic violence in the same way as assault against a woman who is a stranger. I don't view assault against a woman (or even a smaller man) the same way as I view assault against someone who is closer in size and strength. And I don't view altercations by a bunch of people exiting a bar the same way I view altercations in a shopping mall. I don't view that as a "double standard" as opposed to a standard that is influenced by context. Judges do the same when adjudicating cases. So do prosecutors in determining the class of felony/misdemeanor as well as whether to prosecute or not. Context matters.
Looks like Jonathan Dwyer is the latest woman beater. I think if the NFL does not start letting the judicial systems handle this they are going to have quite the sticky situation on hand. Women who are gold diggers will know what type of power they have over players and make demands and threaten them with calling the police and saying they were assaulted and do damage to themselves just to try and prove something happened. Know that the NFL will suspend them immediately for 6 games, the woman can make some crazy demands for cash or a car or who knows.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Roger Goodell says he should stay "because I acknowledged my mistake." I wonder if players can use the same justification to stay active.</p>— Ethan J. Skolnick (@EthanJSkolnick) <a href="https://twitter.com/EthanJSkolnick/status/513048313638436864">September 19, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<iframe class="vine-embed" src="https://vine.co/v/OWPa5O5U5rw/embed/simple" width="600" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe><script async src="//platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script> WHOA. He doesn't want to be Rice'd.
This press conference just made things worse for Goodell and the NFL. He starts off by being 17 min late, then proceeds to read a statement that offered no new insight. By the time he opened it up to questions, the reporters went after him like he was keeping secrets. Not a good look at all. It's time for new leadership in the commissioner's office.
