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PRC tries to reign in Taiwan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sishir Chang, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    This is an issue that's probably foremost on the mind of the Chinese Clutchfans but one that has a lot of bearing on the US' longterm security and economy.

    From AP and MSN

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7122250/

    China bill OKs military action against Taiwan
    Aggression would be ‘last resort’ to stop move to independence

    BEIJING - China unveiled a law on Tuesday authorizing military action to stop rival Taiwan from pursuing formal independence, but said an attack would be a last resort if peaceful means fail.

    Taiwan immediately lambasted the legislation, calling it a pretext for attack that “gives the (Chinese) military a blank check to invade Taiwan.”

    “Our government lodges strong protest against the vicious attempt and brutal means ... to block Taiwanese from making their free choice,” Taiwan’s Mainland Affairs Council, which handles the island’s China policy, said in a statement.

    Sharp reaction from Taiwan
    Chinese leaders say the law is meant to curb what they claim is an effort by Taiwan’s president to make the self-ruled island’s independence permanent. The legislation drew strong and immediate protest from Taiwan as an attempt to dominate the island.

    The proposed law, read out before China’s figurehead parliament by one of the body’s leaders, doesn’t give details of what developments might trigger an attack on Taiwan. The two sides have been separated since 1949 but Beijing claims the self-ruled island as its own territory.

    The communist mainland has threatened repeatedly to invade if Taiwan tries to make its independence permanent, and the new law doesn’t impose new conditions or make new threats. But it would codify the legal steps required before China would take military action.

    “If possibilities for a peaceful reunification should be completely exhausted, the state shall employ nonpeaceful means and other necessary measures to protect China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity,” said Wang Zhaoguo, a leader of the National People’s Congress, as he read from the law.

    A leading member of Taiwan’s parliament called on Chinese leaders not to act rashly, saying they should “rein in the horse before the precipice.”

    “We will not accept any resolution to allow the Chinese communists to unilaterally decide Taiwan’s future,” said Chen Chin-jun, a member of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party. “We will reject China’s annexation and safeguard Taiwan’s sovereignty and democracy.”
     
  2. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    I think it is funny that China actually is bothering to pursue legal justifications incase the need to reign in Taiwan. It shows a couple of things, the Chinese government are learning how to atleast put on a show for some decent PR and that they are trying to do this with as little of international resistance as possible.
     
  3. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    I just heard on the radio that Taiwan is planning a series of wargames. It looks like the sabre rattling is heating up on both sides.
     
  4. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Contributing Member

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    And where is the US fifth fleet?
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    So, has anything actually changed with this law? They've been saying for decades they'd use force to keep Taiwan. Why is this different? It seems to me like almost a nonevent.

    The one way it seems to me to be significant is what it indicates about the professionalization of the legal system within the PRC. Previous generations of Chinese leaders would have been happy with governmental fiat. That they would codify the threat to Taiwan in law indicates an ascension of the rule of law over the rule of men, and -- longterm -- is a small milestone in the democratization of the country.
     
  6. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Is it the 5th or 7th?

    I agree with Juan, this is a non-event.
     
  7. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Contributing Member

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    Does it has anything to do with U.S.? I dont think that Taiwan is that
    important to US anymore. Furthermore, No country wants to mess
    with US unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary. After World War II, most
    wars have little threat to US, but US still gets involved and let the other
    parties suffered 10, 000 times more than US.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    As long as Yao is not in the army any longer, I don't care.

    :)
     
  9. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Well, Taiwan is a democracy and the PRC is not. That's one reason to be involved. Taiwan has traditionally been an ally and we've basically guaranteed their security. Abandoning them in the face of PRC aggression might send a not so productive message to others than depend on our security guarantees.
     
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    I say our business interests in PRC trump our political interests in a free and democratic Taiwan.
     
  11. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    No one wants China and Taiwan to go to war over the independence issue. However, if the situation does occur, I don't expect US to go to full military conflict with China over Taiwan. If you think people were mad about Vietnam war, just imagine the outcry in this country over the number of casualties in such a conflict (even if US can inflict ten times the damage to China). What I would expect would be some form of economical sanction.
     
  12. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Contributing Member

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    No use because EU wouldnt cooperate. They might even take advantage of that.
     
  13. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    They have to do this at least for a while, otherwise they would look too weak.

    The really sad part is the current Taiwan government just cann't seem to leave well enough alone, that crazy leader might just declare independance before his term is up.
     
  14. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Contributing Member

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    US was allied with Chiang Kai-Shek (?)'s Nationalist party. The Nationalist
    government had very similar format and members to today's Communist
    party, but with way more dictatorship from their leader Chiang. Now the
    Nationalist has been beaten by the democratic progressive party (DPP),
    who has little connection with US compared to the Nationalist. You can
    find many descendents of former Nationalists in the Bush camp, such as
    the last Secretary of Labor. Nationalists in general are against the old
    communist party (not the current one though) but they absolutely hate
    the Independence policy of DPP.

    Finally, you bet US' involvement has more to do with national interests
    than democracy. Taiwan surely doesn't have too much weight on US
    national interests, and the DPP president doesn't even obey Bush's
    order of not pursuing independence.
     
    #14 snowmt01, Mar 8, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2005
  15. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Contributing Member

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    hehehe...good question, I need to brush up on my Clancy
     
  16. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    For $2000 the question is : What is the Seventh Fleet?

    Mark
     
  17. Mango

    Mango Contributing Member

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    A point to <i>HayesStreet</i>.

    <a HREF="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/unit/fleet_n.htm">U.S. Navy Fleets</a>
     
  18. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Contributing Member

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    EXCELLENT Google work Mango, score one to Hayes who has dinged me on Maritime issue before! ;)

    In either case, not sure this is a NON issue as such...sabre rattaling betweenn the PRC and Taiwan warrants further tracking to say the least. Make no mistake, the PRC will NOT rest untill they have recouped their former territory.
     
  19. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Well the question was 'why is Taiwan important to the US.' Part of the reason they are important is because they are a democracy. That is important. They are a big trading partner. That is important. They are long term allies against the communist PRC. THAT is very important. The US WILL defend Taiwan.
     
  20. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Honestly, the US position towards Taiwan is the closest modern political equivilant on a state-to-state political scale to the traditional Chinese concept of The Mandate of Heaven which was, as I understand it, was basically the concept that the Emperor was allowed to remain the Emperor as long as he behaved wisely towards those under his protection. We extended our loyality to Taiwan, and to fail to honor our obligation would be immoral.

    A war to defend Taiwan from forced invasion would be a moral obligation of the highest order, IMHO.

    I must clarify, however, that I am terribly embarased by the way that Henry Kissinger & Nixon basically sold out Taiwan as part of their plan to isolate the Soviets. In the same way we created the Ossama bin Laden, and Saddam Hussein as short term fixes, Henry Kissinger and Nixon adopted the (polite term) neuanced US position on Taiwan. They also got Taiwan kicked off the UN and the PRC installed in their place.

    China was supposedly Nixon's one redeeming act, but after watching a documentry on the history channel and then reading the declassified documents at the Nationa Security Archive, it appears he was a lying cheating backstabber here as well.

    In otherwords, the US gave the PRC some ground to stand on and I am embarassed for this. If we sell out Taiwan the rest of the way simply because China is a big potential trading partner, I will emigrate.
     

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