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Pope: Other Denominations Not True Churches

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sishir Chang, Jul 10, 2007.

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  1. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    From MSNBC

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/

    Pope: Other denominations not true churches
    Benedict issues statement asserting that Jesus established ‘only one church’

    MSNBC News Services
    Updated: 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
    LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy -

    Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

    Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.

    On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.

    Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

    In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II’s ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been “erroneous or ambiguous” and had prompted confusion and doubt.

    It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, “Dominus Iesus,” which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

    In the new document and an accompanying commentary, which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy’s Dolomite mountains, the Vatican repeated that position.

    “Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church,” the document said. The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.

    ‘Identity of the Catholic faith’
    The Rev. Sara MacVane of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document.

    “I don’t know what motivated it at this time,” she said. “But it’s important always to point out that there’s the official position and there’s the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics.”

    The document said Orthodox churches were indeed “churches” because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed “many elements of sanctification and of truth.” But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a “wound” that harmed them, it said.

    “This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an ‘internal constitutive principle’ of the very existence of a particular church,” the commentary said.

    Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

    “However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith,” the commentary said.

    ‘Not backtracking on ecumenical commitment’
    The document, signed by the congregation prefect, U.S. Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul — a major ecumenical feast day.

    There was no indication about why the pope felt it necessary to release the document, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles. Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics, or that it could simply be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the congregation.

    Father Augustine Di Noia, undersecretary for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said the document did not alter the commitment for ecumenical dialogue, but aimed to assert Catholic identity in those talks.

    “The Church is not backtracking on ecumenical commitment,” Di Noia told Vatican radio.

    “But, as you know, it is fundamental to any kind of dialogue that the participants are clear about their own identity. That is, dialogue cannot be an occasion to accommodate or soften what you actually understand yourself to be.”
     
  2. BigSherv

    BigSherv Contributing Member

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    As a catholic this makes me sad. Rather than finding a thread to unite all types of Christianity the current Pope puts out a message rediculing others.

    From what i remember Pope John Paul II would never have said anything like this.

    I mean why even make the comment all it does is make people angry.
     
  3. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    isnt this the same pope who was going around visiting mosques and saying that all religions are the same?

    and i am not learning latin!

    nazi pope doesnt hold a candle to john paul II!
     
  4. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    It's cool. Protestants won't be bothered by it since we don't view the Pope as anymore special or different than our local pastor anyway. I think this is more his opinion than anything and I think it is a wrong opinion, nothing more nothing less.
     
  5. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Contributing Member

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    Catholic?
     
  6. God's Son

    God's Son Member

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    i dont think jesus was a profiteer
     
  7. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    Can you elaborate? I didn't see anything in the article referring to money. Unless you are referring to indulgences which wasn't mentioned in the article either.
     
  8. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    You would know.
     
  9. Cesar^Geronimo

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    I was raised Catholic but have moved around in my walk. I attended a Pentacostal church for a while and now I am in a non-demoniational evangelical church.

    One thing I am quit confident in is that the Catholic church is not the church Jesus founded. On the same note -- I believe there will be many Catholics in heaven along with Pentecostals, Evangelicals, Baptists, Methodists...... None of us have it all right - God is to big for our minds to grasp so therefore too big for us to create one set of "rules" that we can definitively say are right.

    But I do believe that the Pope and Peter have little in common.

    Peter never believed he was infallible (heck, even after Jesus ascended he and Paul had a disagrement and Peter realized he was wrong - on a church matter)

    Peter was married

    Peter would have never let another man bow down and kiss his ring (or pay any special homage to him)
     
  10. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    But not the same one. ;)

    <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_RMzA82H-Qo"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_RMzA82H-Qo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
     
  11. Cesar^Geronimo

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    That was funny
     
  12. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    I ran a search online in a Roman Catholic Bible on the word Pope and got "Pope not found"...

    Latin Vulgate
    Douay-Rheims Bible CONTENTSINDEXSEARCH

    Whole Bible Old Testament New Testament
    pope, Pope not found. See the index or try one of these ...

    pomegranates
    pommels
    pomp
    pond
    pondered
    pondereth
    pondering
    ponds
    pool
    pools
    poor
    poplar
    populations
    populous
    porch
    porches
    porphyrion
    porphyry
    portending
    porter
    porters
    portion
    Pierce
    Pilate
    Pisidia
    Place
    Placing
    Plantations
    Playing
    Pleiades
    Plilistines
    Pontius
    Pontus
    Portius
    Posidonius
    Possess
    Possessed
    Pour
    Pouring
    Poverty
    Power
    Practise
    Praise
    Praising


    So much ado about nothing.... If you attend a church be a witness of Jesus.
    (and that clip was funny, I have never seen the Simpsons before :D )
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    This is the temporary scary Pope they bring out to scare European children. The next Pope should be much cooler and tolerant.
     
  14. Achilleus

    Achilleus Member

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    Oh, really? Gee thanks...
     
  15. Achilleus

    Achilleus Member

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    He has a selection of phrases for a number of issues. This one was close enough to use...
     
  16. trustme

    trustme Member

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    Isn't this the same pope who said something about the Prophet Muhammed PBUH encouraged violence or something?
     
  17. Cesar^Geronimo

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    Why the sarcasm? I was just being more inclusionary then the Pope and many Catholics.
     
  18. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Contributing Member

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    Isn't this just another way to implicitly say you think you are better than everyone else? If only there was a religion out there that taught people to treat others equally....

    Trust this coming from me, I'm a true Rockets Fan, unlike those fake YOFs....
     
  19. Cesar^Geronimo

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    It's amazing that is exactly what the New Testament teaches.
     
  20. trustme

    trustme Member

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    I'm pretty confident that's what every major religion teaches.
     

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