Poll: Palestinians support armed struggle even after statehood

Great....we should just take the leash of Israel and let them handle their own problems.....

DD

 

Very interesting, Deji. Looks like there goes the theory some here seem to try to advance that the Palestinians are only poor victims who are just fighting for a just cause (land and statehood). They have been radicalized by their government and the circumstances so much that, if the poll is correct, a very large percentage of them is too full of hate to see the reality. Sad.

 

And they hate us for trying to help.....nice.

 

It's not surprising but also not overly alarming. I think any group who's been oppressed and is continually being oppresed will want revenge. I think if after 9/11 the terrorists said they were done attacking the U.S. and wouldn't want to carry out any further attacks, I doubt that people would be ok with that. Most of them would want to fight back.

I know that it wasn't a 9/11 that was done to the Palestinians but it has been a a long process of rights that are denied them, many of them, such as water, and ability to dig new water wells, have no effect at all on terrorism. So yes there is a natural inclination to say that keep fighting even after they get what they want. After years of oppression and violence the natural respons would be to opt in favor of attacking your oppressors.

Will that be reality once there are no more Israeli troops on their land, their families and innocents aren't being killed, they can finally use their own wells, and dig new wells so they can get enough water for a change, the settlements are gone, they will be allowed to run their own economically viable businesses, and move about to work in them. A good life, and one that's so much improved over the oppression they live under now will change that opinion poll.

 

I said this over a year ago, and you guys laughed at me for it.

Who was right again? C'mon, tell me. Who?

Another "I told you so" from treeman.

 

Do you know when the PLO was formed? Guess.

Do you know what their symbol is? Guess.

Their goal is - and always has been - to push ther Jews into the sea.

Personally, I say give them statehood. And when they attack Israel again, this time there'll be no stupid "well they were oppressed!" arguments, they will have no one to blame when the Israelis push them entirely into Jordan and Egypt.

Just give them what they want: a chance to try to push the Jews into the sea.

 

The PLO's "Phased Plan" for Israel's destruction:

http://www.netaxs.com/~iris/plophase.htm

The Palestinian National Charter (interesting reading):

http://www.netaxs.com/~iris/plochart.htm

The PLO's symbol:



On the PLO's founding:

Founded in 1964 by the Arab League, the PLO was the invention of Egyptian President Gamal Abdul Nasser. Nasser saw it as a means to advance Egypt's goals of uniting the Arab world under Egyptian rule, by rallying the Arab states under the banner of destroying Israel.

http://www.netaxs.com/~iris/whoplo.htm

A great library on the PLO and Palestinian organizations:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Terrorism/plotoc.html

FAS report on the PLO:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/plo.htm

Why the emphasis on the PLO here, you might ask? "Well, they don't exist anymore?" You see, the people running the PA right now are exactly the same people who ran the PLO. The same fighters - Tanzim and Fatah - are the same people who were terrorists in the PLO. The PLO and the early PA were the organizations largely responsible for brainwashing the Palestinian populace into believing that driving the Jews into the sea is the single most important goal in their lives. And that's why this poll came out the way it did.

 

Damn, it sounds like the Bamaslammer echo syndrome here. Thank goodness I'm not the only one who agrees with that statement. They do care about forming a state: a state on the ashes and bones of the dead Jewish one. The right of return mularkey is simply "open the gates of Israel so we can finish what the Nazis started."

 

Something's missing though:

'Fifty-nine percent of Palestinians believe that Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad should continue their armed struggle against Israel even if Israel leaves all of the West Bank and Gaza, including East Jerusalem, and a Palestinian state is created, a new survey shows.

Similarly, 80 percent of Palestinians say that, under those circumstances, the Palestinians should not give up the "right of return."



This makes it sound like a 'what if Israel unilaterally withdraws from the occupied territories and the Palestinians State is then created'. Does this really address how the Palestinian's would respond if their leaders sign a peace agreement (that resolves such issues as right-of-return, important to 80% of Palestinians)?

Pretty sad survey results, though. And as FB said, not too surprising (except for maybe the Israeli Arabs as Deji mentioned).

BTW, here's the entire link: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1066799672944

 

BTW FB, do you think that the Israeli's should desire revenge for the suicide bombings?

 

I don't know if either side should 'desire' it, but I do think it's totally normal. I understand the desire for revenge. When a group attacks innocents, and civilian areas that have nothing to do with any legitimate gripe, it's only natural to want to strike back, to be distrustful, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised with a majority of Israelis wanting revenge against the Palestinians.

I think the best chance would be to steer the conversation away from violence. I don't doubt that if we asked both sides if they would prefer a peaceful, profitable, self reliant existence, a majority would probably say yes. I think both sides are tired of fear, misery, having their children killed, etc. For peace to work, it would be best to start the uphill fight of focussing on the desire for peace.

 

So now you guys are making excuses for the sick views of the Palestinians? You aren't surprised? Well, I wouldn't be "surprised" if the Israelis massacred half of them after another suicide bomb that murders 20 civilians, but most Israelis don't support such action.

We are not talking about a natural inclination for revenge here. We are talking about ideology. The bottom line is the Palestinians are not interested in peace with Israel. They see any agreement as just a step closer to destorying the Jews.

Will their views change if they are given what they want? Maybe. But what on earth makes you think so, besides speculation?

 

If I lived in a prison for my whole life. Unable to drill wells for water, unable to roam freely or without papers, antagonized by an outside power and discriminated against based only on my heritage and the fact that I am a muslim or christian.

If I was imposed to sanctioned ghettos and had missle strikes from helicopters waking me up at night and killing my people, I would fight like hell.

I'd rather die then live in those conditions for my whole life.

That is just me of course.

The beauty of this "unbiased poll" is that it was conducted by :

ITAMAR MARCUS - A zionist who was one of the 'journalists' involved in a Solidarity With Israel march with Sharon.

JANINE ZACHARIA- Who has written such articles about anti-semitism in the UN and throughout the world. Has also written articles about how Israeli Use of US arms is not illegal.

FRANK LUNTZ - This alleged 'republican' has been spinning poll data for years and runs it by The Israeli Ministry before he releases it.

What a fine list of characters.

I love how Zionists give me an unbiased opinion on the conflict. And hell, why not we in the USA sustain Israel's economy.

Aren't there enough leeches in the US, without having to go abroad to find more??

Some people think the US is just an open checkbook for people.

Can't get healthcare? The US Government Will cover it !!!
Can't get housing? The US Government will cover it !!!!
Can't get a job?? The US Government will cover it!!!!
Israel Can't afford itself??? The US Government will cover it!!!

I don't understand how some of you alleged Republicans, Libertarians and those for financial sensibility can allow us to give billions in free money, sign off on loans that aren't repaid, and hand over weapons to the State of Israel. And what do we get out of it???

Backlash from the rest of the world?? Constant 50 to 2 votes in the UN with us the only supporter of Israeli actions.

Stop the Handouts! If they're control of occupied territories costs too much, then they should find a solution. As long as we are subsidizing their costs they will not feel the sting.

 

I agree. Just curious to hear your take on that. I am unaware of surveys that say Israelis want Palestinian civilians killed, yet using the same logic, we apparently would understand the desire. Sounds kinda sick.

And FWIW, one-sided views are just as damaging to peace talks as talk of revenge. I wish there were a lot more folks like you around ... maybe they would have peace by now.

 

FD Khan,

Wondering what happened to you.

You used to be much more balanced in your views about ME issues. You also used to be a part of the discourse, not just post then run away.


Nice to see the Israelis attempt to be more transparent about their military decision making WRT civilian casualties. It would be nice to see an accounting like this for each and every civilian injury...on both sides.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...20031023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_missile_strike


Video Raises Questions on Israeli Strike

By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM - A video of an Israeli missile strike in a Gaza refugee camp shows people running in a nearby alley, and the army said Thursday it is investigating whether this could explain the high number of casualties reported by the Palestinians.

Monday's attack in the Nusseirat refugee camp, which left eight people dead and 70 wounded, revived debate in Israel over the policy of targeted killings, prompted in part by Palestinian claims that one missile was fired into a crowd.

A bird's-eye video provided by the military from a drone aircraft shows two missiles hitting a car as it drives along the camp's main street, which from the air appears relatively empty. The missiles strike about one minute apart.

Palestinian security officials and witnesses have said that after the first hit, bystanders rushed to the scene, and that the second missile caused most of the casualties. Some witnesses also reported a third missile strike.

The military has said there were only two missiles and that it did not fire into a crowd. The video shows no crowd near the vehicle during the second missile hit. Military officials have said the order to strike again would not have been given had many bystanders been present.

However, a review of the video shows that after the first missile strike, camp residents began running through an alley toward the main street. People appeared as tiny black dots in the grainy, blurred footage, and there seem to be about two dozen in the alley, although it is difficult to determine the exact number.

There was little traffic on the main road — only one car passed the stricken car between the first and second missile hits — but the camera does not offer a clear view of sidewalks and alleys, because of balconies and overhangs.

On balmy evenings, as on Monday, it is customary for Palestinians to congregate outdoors, pulling up chairs on sidewalks to chat or smoke waterpipes.

"The street was full of people," said Iyad al-Masri, who lives along the main road and whose cousin, Mohammed, was among the dead. "Shops were open, especially restaurants and coffee shops."

Khalil Taha, who owns a nearby shop, said the second explosion was more powerful than the first and that he saw wounded lying on the ground as far as 60 yards away from the targeted vehicle. One of those killed was 11-year-old Mohammed Baroud, who lived just off the main road.

The military took the unusual step of showing the video to reporters Tuesday. On Wednesday, it distributed the video to news organizations, allowing closer inspection.

Maj. Sharon Feingold, an army spokeswoman, acknowledged Thursday that "it is a possibility" that people were in the alley at the time of the second hit.

"We are still studying it and we will draw our conclusions," she said. "We released the video to refute Palestinian claims that the road was filled with people and rescue workers. We never said that it was not possible that people were hit, people were hurt."

Asked whether the pilot of the attack helicopter would have seen the civilians in the alleys, she said: "It is usually very difficult to find or see them if they are in an alley or under a balcony."

The incident began Monday evening when Israeli troops killed two suspected Palestinian militants trying to sneak across the border fence between Gaza and Israel. The army said the two, later identified as members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a radical PLO faction, had planned to carry out a suicide bombing.

Other members of the cell fled in a car that was tracked by an Israeli helicopter and was then targeted by missiles in Nusseirat. Among those in the car was another would-be suicide bomber, Israeli security officials said.

Palestinian security and hospital officials say all those killed in the camp were civilians. In apparent support of that contention, armed groups did not claim any of the dead as members, as they would normally do. Also, the military did not release "charge sheets" on any of the dead, as is customary, though officials said most of those killed in Nusseirat that day were militants.

The Israeli Haaretz daily reported Thursday that four of the dead, all in their 20s, belonged to PFLP, as well as Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)'s Fatah (news - web sites) faction and the Islamic militant group Hamas. A fifth man in his 20s died Wednesday of his injuries.

The remaining three — the 11-year-old boy, a 29-year-old doctor and a 49-year-old cement factory owner — were clearly bystanders.

Thirteen of the 70 wounded were in serious condition.
___

Associated Press reporter Ibrahim Barzak contributed to this report from the Nusseirat refugee camp.