Have you actually watched him play this season? More specifically over the past week or two? Saying he plays no D is like the redditors and other Harden haters saying Harden plays no D. Yes it was the narrative previously and it was true but that's not the case anymore. Seems like he has that part figured out now. Small sample size but so far so good. And this is another reason why +/- is meaningless when used in the context of a single game or just a few games rather than over all and taking into consideration who the player is on the floor with. It isn't the be all/end all of NBA stats. A reason why most players and coaches aren't obsessed with it.
People forget Okafor is only 23!!! The rush to declare players as a bust is insane amongst fans. So stupid. D'Angelo Russell is only 22. Markelle Fultz is only 20. Yet idiots were already declaring Russell to be a bust, much like they did with Okafor and are doing with Fultz (even though Fultz has a legitimate injury affecting his on-court play). Fans forget these are one and dones so they are so young and won't even come close to hitting their prime for a WHILE. Put the player in the right situation-right team, coach that trusts him/believes in him/helps further him along, right teammates(maybe a player that needs to play with an actual point guard), and/or a player realizing opportunities are closing up and is finally listening to coaching. It takes patience.
So the past week or 2 all of the sudden erases years of work? Really? Saying Harden plays no D when he’s been ok on that end for a while doesn’t compare to Okafor.
2 weeks of work doesn't really erase years of bad reputation lol. Harden has been playing average to great D since the season started. Okafor is already a bust because he didn't live up to his draft spot. Maybe he turns it around as he is still young but he is already a bust because the team that drafted him regretted choosing him. Also +/- is one of the best indicators of person performance over a long period of time like a season or so. Just because most players don't like it doesn't mean anything most players also dropped out of college after one year doesn't mean that's a great idea. So far Okafor has -1.8 +/- over the season and crazily enough it is a career high for him. His career average is -3.6 which is just abysmally horrendous no wonder he is a bust. But the final nail on the coffin is Holic's seal of approval. It is clearly the kiss of death for all these players as we have seen with guys like De Andre Jordan, Thong Maker and now Ja Okafor. If he makes a thread talking about how awesome a player is, you can bet your socks that player's career is gonna crash and burn lol.
I'm not sure where it was said that the past week or 2 erases the body of work shown over several years. I believe the point is that it's a start.
Oh for sure about +/- over a long period of time such as a full season but it was being used in this thread in the context of the last few games in which he has actually been playing well. I'd wait until the end of the season to see what it is at that point than using what it was up to this point where he had been used sparingly and now seems to actually be turning things around. And damn you for those final three sentences. Crap. $#%&
that’s exactly what u were implying... Or did u just say this for no reason? “Saying he plays no D is like the redditors and other Harden haters saying Harden plays no D” Okafor is a defensive liability, Idc what he was doing the past week someone saying Harden plays no D is nowhere near as misguided as saying Okafor sucks defensively...they’re not even close...Harden’s narrative has been clearly false for years
Actually what I was implying was that his OVERALL form over the past two weeks doesn't erase his performances since he was drafted. You're talking solely about his defense whereas I was talking about his performance in total on the offensive and defensive end. We know he has offensive tools but he still didn't look great on that end anyway. As of today Okafor isn't a defensive liability for the Pelicans and you're entitled to not care what he was doing over the past week. If you need me to fix my earlier statement for you then sure. “Saying he plays no D at the moment is like the redditors and other Harden haters saying Harden plays no D”
Bballholic with the string clap back LOL But man he does have footwork, maybe he’s doing more cardio and eating better. I’m sure the staff is motivating him mentally, good turn around so far. Still young like you said.
I'm discounting his offense last night. We had nothing down low. Faried is a joke down there. Durant and Green are gonna carve him up. And Jah has always had offensive skills. I'm seeing a significant step in his defense and that's what I'm emphasizing here. If he simply begins even a mediocre defender them he can be a significant player in the Association because of his extensive offensive skill set.
He will always be a bust - for his draft position. However he has been shown clear signs of improvement. We are talking about a player who was heading straight out of the league. Now he is showing that he maybe can have a role. Hopefully he can continue and improve even more.
I agree...but question(Not saying this will be Okafor but i'm speaking in general for players like him, D'Angelo Russell and maybe even Fultz if Philly let him go at some point) what if a player drafted in the top 3 and then let go/traded by that team because of offensive or defensive issues, moves around and finally settles with one team where he officially shows the talent(on offense and defense) that got him drafted that high. Perhaps maybe averages 20 and 10 over the next several seasons and becomes a top player/focal point for his team and for opponents when playing his team. Maybe even sniffs an all star game or gets selected to an all star game or two. Do they or can they shed that tag at that point? Or is that something that will be stuck with them regardless? What would they need to do in order to shed that tag over the course of their career?
If they can get to an all star game or even become a top40 player then they arent a bust. Russel in my opinion isnt a bust already.
This is something I actually agree with you in lol jk jk But he’s looked fanstatsic I think he’s clearly a Center in today’s game and his D has greatly improved. I still want to see more outside shooting even if it’s midrage for now. Even last night against us he passed on some clear wide open 15 foot jumpers. But I do want to give you some props. You were right when we talked 3 years ago about Harden needing a PG like CP3 to get us to the finals and that was correct we’re contenders and have a legit chance since we got CP3. I think you even said Harden would avg 35 I guess you were wrong cause he avg 36 lol, but I did tell you Harden could still avg 7+ assist and still playmake a lot. Harden really is a gifted passes out of the pick and roll but his passing overall has regressed imo this season he used to throw the sickest cross court pass to the corner for three when he was up top and I never see it anymore. Maybe it’s the MDA system but I wish he would do that more. Only him and Lebron are big and strong enough to eveb make that pass without it getting picked off. But ya Jah looks legit and I don’t see this stopping anytime soon as long as gets this playtime which he should. I’m really impressed with his D and rebounding is greatly improved I think he’s a lot better shape. To me he still had a lot more room for improvement on offense over the D and that’s saying somthing because his O is already very good. Post players are coming back I think that’s a fact. Do I think you can win a chip with your best player being a post guy? No but I think post play def has a major impact on today’s game since all the switching and small ball in today’s nba.
I guess that would depend on your definition of Bust. Personally my opinion of Bust is somebody who disappointed his original drafters, they are the ones who used a very valuable resource (lotto pick) on the player and they didn't get any return. So somebody like Rasheed Wallace had a very long career and was even arguably the best player on a championship team but he is still a bust for me since Trailblazers didnt get the ROI on the pick they invested on him.
