Passenger shot and killed by Air Marshall in Miami

what does Iraq have to do with this? as a matter of fact, I don't think anyone has questioned soilders in Iraq on the use of deadly force.

 

The passengers on the plane heard bomb too, there are plenty of witnesses.

 

The utopian reaction to this incident is exactly the same as their reaction to our soldiers in Iraq. The scrutiny you guys are putting on this guy is the exact same scrutiny our soldiers have to deal with.

 

you're making up things. no one put any scrutiny on soilders in Iraq, just the leaders who misled the public in sending them there.

 

Uhh, really? Feel free to see John Kerry's comments just 5 days ago.

 

the key point in the article to me is that the pilot said the air marshall was aware of the situation. from that I have a hard time believing the air marshall would think the guy had a bomb. now that is of course the wife saying she was told the air marshall was aware of the situation.

 

john kerry posts on this board?

 

Yes, and since you didn't respond there maybe you will respond here.

What about those comments upset you? Are you upset that Kerry said the things that were in the Red Cross report? Are you upset that Kerry mentioned things the soldiers did? Or are you upset that the soldiers did those things?

 

Links?

 

HE WASN'T READING FROM THE REPORT! Those were his own words. Did he read a report and agree with it? I suppose but that still doesn't excuse him from saying what he said on national TV for the whole world to see and read about. In his position he should not be undermining the troops to the freaking media of all people. We are fighting a freaking war over there, God forbid people are woken up in the middle of the night... sorry to inconvenience them, our bad.

 

when the canadians come and liberate us, and go in your house late at night with guns drawn, don't mind them, they're just fighting a war that they started on our soil.

 

FB and others, let's not derail the thread. I'd like to see some links to Svpernaut's claim that passengers heard the guy shouting bomb on the plane. You are distracting him.

 

You should call CNN and let them know about this. On their homepage:


questions are arising about whether he made a bomb threat. Air marshals said Rigoberto Alpizar announced he was carrying a bomb before being killed but so far no passenger has publicly concurred with that account.


Who are these witnesses?

 

Are you going to provide links to your repeated claim or retract it?

 

Another eyewitness says he never heard him claim he had a bomb:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1138965,00.html

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb
By SIOBHAN MORRISSEY/MIAMI
SUBSCRIBE TO TIMEPRINTE-MAILMORE BY AUTHOR

Posted Thursday, Dec. 08, 2005
At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run off the airplane shortly before take-off.

"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."

When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.' She said, 'Calm down.'"

Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the plane."

McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."

By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I heard about five shots."

McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."

 

This tragedy seems to have London subway shooting written on it all over again.

 

Svpernaut, do you have something to say?

or are you still intent on blaming the guy who got killed. it can never be the fault of anyone working for the government. obviously they are flawless like the guy in charge.

 

That is interesting and changes my assessment of the situation. If the plane was still on the ground waiting for takeoff with the doors still open why didn't the aircrew call in the airport police to handle it?

My understanding is that the local authorities have jurisdiction until the plane doors are closed. If Aplizar just seemed like a guy panicking and desperate to get off like someone who has severe fear of flying the response from my understanding is for the crew to let them go or call in airport police to subdue him. I don't believe the air marshall generally would break cover to deal with something like that.

I'm not saying that the air marshalls acted improperly but it does seem stranger. Something must have occurred to make the air marshall believe that Alpizar represented a severe enough of a threat to break cover.

 

If a person is running down the aisle saying they have a bomb and reaching into their bag, I don't think waiting for airport security to get there is a good idea.