I ask you a question about "Freedom of Religion" and you respond with an answer about "Christianity". What percentage of Muslims in America do you believe would agree with you (for valid or invalid reasons)? You've summed it up perfectly for me. Freedom for Christians to practice Christianity in a Christian America. As long as Christians are 100% comfortable then "Freedom of Religion" has been achieved. You won't make any sacrifices for other people. Furthermore, Christianity gets all the credit when things go right, and none of the blame when things go wrong. Therefore allowing God in schools can only result in good. If kids interpret their religious teachings correctly then Christianity saves society. If kids interpret their religious teachings incorrectly then it is their fault because they are psychopathic. Why wouldn't good schools produce good Christians and bad schools produce bad Christians? Do you really want public school teachers espousing religion in schools? What happens when a teacher starts teaching your children Kwanzaa? Teachers aren't all Christians either, maybe we should make that a requirement for public schools.
Don't get all huffy! I answered your question in the context of the thread which is about the Christian God being removed from the public institution of the school. Obviously that is not what you intended. I never talked about public school teachers espousing Christianity; in fact I drew a distinction between Christianity being in the school and being on the syllabus which, I think, is what you are implying. What I have touted is the protection of the Judeo/Christian fiber of our public institutions. Historically it has stood us pretty well. I think that is worth protecting. No one has addressed the observation that refman offered about the Jewish gentleman who rued the eviction of Christian traditiion from public life. As a nation, we ought to stand for something religiously. I think a religious tradition that promotes love and tolerance borne by free will is about as good as it gets. Most of the "problems" cited in this thread have been people problems rather than religious problems.
During that 100 year period we had legalized discrimination, women not being allowed to vote, minorities not being allowed to vote. You mentioned the gang violence not being related to prayer in schools, well our dominance during that 100 year history also had no relation to prayer in school. In addition to the things I mentioned above it probably had more to do with legalized child labor, monopolies, over long work weeks, slum lords, unsafe working conditions, and low wages. Those were all practices during the time we had prayer in schools, and probably had more to do with our nations rise to power than prayer in school. The things I mentioned have a direct effect on the economy. The fact that all of those things were prevolent during the time of School prayer also leads me to believe our nation was not a bit more moral during that period either.
I've already given you a quote about what Jefferson thought, and here is either the same or a similar one. It seems that Jefferson appreciated individuality and saw no need to impose a religious tradition on anynoe.
The real issue, as I understand it, was that the founding fathers didn't want to create a national religion which tax money would be used to support. This was a major reason for leaving England and the Anglican church. Don't you have to ask yourself why their language and the traditions they passed on were riddled with traditional Christian references? It is my understanding that, in fact, at least two states had state religions still following our declaration of independence-- forcing their own state-citizens to support the clergy through state collected taxes.
Just like how you want ME to pay taxes for schools promoting YOUR specific religious tradition (or whatever you think your religion should be). AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. PERIOD.
You know it went down that way for 100+ years. The world didn't start and begin with your birth. Put away the righteous indignation, please....
The first amendment protects the freedom of religion. It consists of two parts: the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause. The Establishment Clause prohibits the government from creating an official or established church. At the time of the passage of the Bill of Rights, several states had established churches, and the prohibition against the Federal interference with religion was understood to be a limitation on the Federal government, but not the power of state governments. The fourteenth amendment establishes the Equal Protection Clause, which makes the Bill of Rights applicable to all of the states, effectively limiting the state governments. In 1875, Representative James Blaine of Maine proposed a constitutional amendment which would specifically prohibit the use of public funds for any religious purpose. The amendment did not pass, but many states adopted similar laws which are commonly known as Blaine Amendments. Since the 1990's, repeal campaigns have been led by fundamentalist or evangelical Protestants - an irony of sorts since it was members of these same denominations who spearheaded the drive to pass the amendments originally, fearing the rising prominence of the Roman Catholic Church in the American educational apparatus.
Yes, that is EXACTLY what I was arguing. The love of Christ is evil. You got me. Once again, there is nothing you can't misinterpret and over-simplify. The email fits, then, doesn't it? PS, you are a poser.
History and convention doesn't make something right. Throughout history, there have been many many practices that are not acceptable in modern society for good reasons. We do. The USA was the first nation in history to separate church and state.
Can't take a little sarcasm, huh? Look, it was you who proposed the ridiculous scenario. I just revealed it's implications. You tried to hamstring me with "Christian" gangsters and thugs.
<b>Originally posted by Doctor Robert History and convention doesn't make something right. Throughout history, there have been many many practices that are not acceptable in modern society for good reasons. </b> Of course it doesn't; no one said it did. I did however defend the presence of Judeo-Christian tradition in our public institutions for their first 190 years. Everything new is not better either. We do. The USA was the first nation in history to separate church and state. [/QUOTE] And that status was fine for almost 190 years until 1963. The question remains are our schools better and more effective since that change. I think not; you disagree. However, it is an open debate.
You did when you mentioned our nation having an official religious tradition or something to that effect. I think each person can stand for whatever they want religiously, and as a nation the only thing we should stand for is their right to choose or choose no religion at all. It goes hand in hand with Jefferson's qoute.
I pointed out that it was in the "fiber" of one or more of our institutions since approximately 1776. It was "removed" from schools circa 1963, while it remains in the US Senate and The House. It's in our judicial system still. It is impressed, yes, but imposed, no. I think there is even an alternative to swearing with your hand on the Bible, isn't there?
I am too stupid to understand sarcasm, giddy. Thank you for trying to reveal my ridiculousness. Unfortunately, I don't understand what "ridiculous," "revealed," and "implications" mean. I am the cipher. Get real, you agnostic poser. I was talking to my good friend Wilhelm last night and he told me three things: 1. "You are afflicted with the emotional plague. You are sick, very sick, Little Man. It is not your fault. But it is your responsibility to rid yourself of this sickness." 2. "You are different from the really great man in only one thing: The great man knows when and in what he is a little man. The little man does not know that he is little, and he is afraid of knowing it." 3. "What is important is not individual treatment but the prevention of mental disorders. You have locked up the crazy people, and the normal people manage this world. Who, then, is to blame for all the misery?"
1. Tell me more about this "poser" status-- never heard of it. 2. You need new friends... if that's all they have to tell you.