[Orlando Sentinel] Magic agree to terms with Keyon Dooling

Maybe they will trade us Dwight Howard for a sack of beans.
Or better yet Howard for Norris/Weatherspoon

 

Mooch/Spoon = sack of beans

 

They are bad. They're awful. However, I just don't know that I can agree they are the worst run-organization in the NBA. They're one of 12 teams to make the NBA Finals since 1995. You have to go back to the 70's to find the Wizards in the Finals, to the 60's to find the Warriors in the Finals and you have to go back all the way back to 1961 to find the St. Louis Hawks in the NBA Finals. The Clippers have never been to the Finals. I know the Wizards surprised us all and looked ok last year, and the Warriors made the move for Baron Davis and looked pretty good towards the end of the season, but overall, the Wizards, Warriors, Hawks and Clippers have all been worse than the Magic, and all for a lot longer than the Magic. At least in the Magic, you're talking about a team that, in it's brief existence, has been home to two of the top 5 NBA talents of their day in O'Neal and McGrady. The last time any of those other teams could say that was when Dominique Wilkins was wearing a Hawks jersey.

 

We just think he sucks as an NBA player and got a ridiculus contract, and pretty much proved our case.

Take a chill pill, all the power to Keyon Dooling the person, hope he is a good kid who makes wise decisions in his life.

 

The fact that they had Shaq doesn't indicate anything about the way the organization is run. A 10 year old would have picked Shaq with the number 1 pick. That was pure luck. So were Penny and Dwight Howard. Without those three draft miracles (when the Magic overcame the odds), they would not be any more relevant than the Atlanta Hawks.



List of Magic players who went on to have success with other teams:
Shaq
T-Mac
Chauncey Billups
Ben Wallace
Corey Maggette
Matt Harpring
Dwight Howard

Players they drafted as top 15 picks of past few NBA drafts:
Jeryl Sasser
Ryan Humphrey
Reece Gaines

There's a long list of other bad acquisitions in the 90's

 

Dwight Howard

Harpring

Ben Wallace, so you are going to knock them for trying to put Tracy with Hill? Who knew Hill's leg would degenerate?

Chauncey Billups, didn't have success with a few teams till he got to Detroit.

They got to the Finals with Shaq and he left after telling them he would stay.

T-Mac hasn't had more success yet.

 

The Magic also drafted a supporting cast of Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott, found Darrell Armstrong out of the CBA, plucked Scott Skiles early on in the franchise's history, signed away Horace Grant to make a run at the finals (which worked). Due to their success in the mid-90s, they had a series of late 1st round draft picks. There are very few players picked aftward who have done much in the NBA; those were not the days of international players flooding the league. It would've been nice for them to have found one decent player there, but alas, no such luck. From 1999 onward, many of the players they picked have had decent careers in the NBA or served as trade bait to improve/change the squad. Case in point: Ryan Humphrey, traded to get Drew Gooden (who is destined to be a career journeyman; ridding the team of Varejao was the bad part of that trade).

I guess you don't call purging the team of dead weight & older veterans in the purges of 1999-2000 good moves, despite landing the Magic Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. It's a series of bold moves any GM would've done -- and recall, until David Robinson came back from a Hawaiian vacation, the Magic would've had Duncan as well -- despite Hill's injury.

They applied the same moves in the past few seasons that Houston did last year to try to win -- sign older players who can fill in bit roles. It didn't work out quite as well, but it cost the team little and did little to hamper player development. It showed that players still do want to play in Orlando.

On the list of players -- Billups was injured for the half-season he was in Orlando. The Magic weren't the first organization to tire of him. Shaq left because he wanted to go to LA, not because of lack of money or management incompetence. Fact of that matter is that the Magic offered him more and he left anyway. He has openly talked of retiring here and owning the team someday.

Maggette was one year out of college when the Magic dealt him. What did they get out of it? Oh yeah, cap room to sign Tracy McGrady. For the time he was here, I'd say that worked out rather well. The trade of Mobley killed the entire Houston deal for Orlando, but beyond that, it wasn't a horrible one. Houston still has plenty of work to do to challenge for the Finals. Swift is a decent start, assuming he can stay motivated, but there's a lot of dead weight on the roster...and no moves to get rid of it as of yet, despite promises to the contrary.

Harpring had a decent first year, got injured and then wanted a chance to start. With Hill and McGrady around (and for the former, supposedly healthy), that wasn't going to happen in Orlando.

Oh, and when did Dwight Howard leave the Magic?

Last I checked, there are fans in Orlando who care about the Magic. They may not agree with all of the moves management has made, but they do care about their team. And 3yr, $11m for a backup point guard isn't a cap-killer. After all, who gave Moochie Norris the mid-cap exception? Dooling played a solid backup role in Miami last year and will do the same in Orlando; this talk of him challenging for a starting spot is just that...talk.

Before succumbing to a strong series of injuries last year, Orlando was several games above .500 and in the playoffs. When Turkoglu got hurt, Hill went down for precautionary reasons, Cato injured his shoulder for the 20th time during the season, and Francis sat out some games, they slid. With the additions of some teams in the East who had more cap room or were in a better position to add players (salary-wise), the Magic aren't going to be an elite team in the East next season...but they should definitely challenge for a playoff spot. It's not contending, but it's a path back there. Those in Orlando knew it was going to take a while to rebuild the team; at least we got something to show for it instead of having McGrady walk.

 

I guess I was wrong. There's actually a Magic fan out there: mfclark

Are you kidding me dude? the T-Mac deal was horrible for the Magic. I don't care what happened after the trade (Mobley, Christie etc)

You gave up the best player in the league for the most knuckleheaded overpaid point guard in the league and a lazy unmotivated underachiever (Cato). That would classify as a bad trade

The fact that Shaq left says something about the organization.

T-Mac was never sorrounded by any decent players in 4 years. Look at what the Cavaliers are doing for Lebron James. Tracy put the team on his back, but he was never rewarded with any help. A former football kicker was the Magic's second best players during the T-Mac era.

Dwight Howard and Grant Hill will leave the same way that other players did in the past. They all want to win and they know they can't do it with the Magic, because they are incompetent.

Keep us informed on the progress of your draft picks this year. I smell STIFF competition

 

You can spin it anyway you want to macfan but everyone knows Shaq wanted to be in L.A., because A) of the their bigman tradition which he want to be apart of and B) so he could make epics like Shazaam.

 

Letting McGrady walk would have been a blessing compared to the alternative. Instead of letting T-Mac walk and having salary cap space this year, you got two of the worst contracts in the entire NBA. Instead the Magic are fifth in team salary in the NBA without any major talent to speak of. You could have had Hughes, Simmons, Swift, Dalembert. Instead you have Steve Lost the ball Francis

 

Maybe the Dooling signing isn't as dumb as it seems. I just read a long posting on a Magic fan board that said Jameer Nelson and Hill aren't clicking and Nelson became SF Part II in summer league. Very selfish, did not distribute the ball and got in Hill's doghouse. They put in Travis Diener at PG and he runs their offense "to perfection", which proves the problem is Jameer. They decided they needed a "coachable" PG who would distribute the ball and not turn it over.

Supposedly, Dooling's signing will send a message to Nelson. Dooling was told he has a "good chance" to start but they are hoping the competition will light a fire under Nelson.

My comments:
In light of all this from someone who seems to know a lot about the Magic, the signing makes sense. I still question 4yrs/$11MM for someone like Dooling but there isn't much else you can get when you are the Magic. They better get a PG who makes Howard happy or else. A repeat of last year's tensions between SF & Howard is not acceptable.

BTW, SF will be moving to SG (as a starter). This decision has been made with SF's consent.

 

I dont understand this negativity towards Orlando. I guess it is because Steve plays there (not for much longer I hope). I would like to know what you guys would have done differently? The TMac trade was not done because the Magic wanted to, I would bet that they would rather have kept him and picked Emeka. Maybe this is just a case of a bunch of 12 year olds playing on the net. Anyway, you guys are just r****ded for persecuting a team for a situation whose catalyst was beyong their control.

 

Well, I can't speak of other people's negativity. I was not negative toward the Magic, I was simply stating their failures of the past. I live in Orlando and I'm not 12. I thought my post was well articulated and I'm definitely not playing on the net. I am just an NBA fan expressing my opinions.

I am not talking about their failures because Francis is there. I am saying that Francis is a source of their current failures.

 

The Magic have made good moves and bad, and their team still has playoff potential if they have the right coach. Weisbrod, despite being a jerk, has made decent moves, but a couple of huge mistakes in Verajo and Cat Mobley.

They were rockin the summer they went after Timmy and Grant Hill...who knew T-Mac, as the backup plan, would've become super stud (well, I knew...he was on my fantasy team and that guy filled it up...that is why I want D-Miles...I see star potential).

I also remember wathcing Oprah one day and saw Scott Skiles wife talk about how Scott was a bad husband and saying things like "he's going to kill me for talking about this" when Skiles was the Magic coach. I thought that was interesting.

I wish the Magic well, and hope Stevie can regain AllStar status...he was snubbed last year in my opinion.

 

For whom, do you reckon?

 

One comment on this: Both the Pacers and Suns had deals on the table that were better than what the Rockets gave them for T-Mac. The Suns offer included some combination including Joe Johnson & Shawn Marion. The Pacers offered Artest, (Bender?) & Tinsley in some kind of combination. Since Weisbrod had burned the bridge with T-Mac, of course they had to trade him. The incompetence is what they got back for T-Mac. The whole time the deal was brewing, I just knew it wouldn't go thru because Weisbrod would come to his senses and take the other superior offers that were on the table.

 

I know you didn't ask me, but personally, I think he was more deserving than his teammate Grant Hill.

Probably more deserving than Jamison and Jermaine O'Neal too...

 

Everything I read was EITHER Johnson OR Marion. Not both. From the Pacers, Harrington and Bender were discussed. But I dont think Artest was ever discussed.

And Tmac only gave assurances to HOUSTON that he was going to resign there. The other teams didnt get those assurances.

 

I've seen you post this elsewhere. Where are you getting this from? I don't remember it that way.

Oh, and dooling sucks.

 

He only said he wanted to play in Houston. Being under contract to Orlando I don't think it would be cool to say he would resign with a team he doesn't play for. That is all the assurances anyone here in Houston needed.