It’s kind of like CNN, Warren and Hillary secretly want Sanders to win and are trying to propel him against Biden by constantly embarrassing themselves and face planting in awful Bernie smears that everybody sees through.
Warren‘s campaign has been flailing since her healthcare flub and the sexism gambit was so transparent. CNN regularly whores out it’s journalistic standards for eyeballs, so running the Warren story is par for the course for them. And Clinton clearly has sour feelings from the election, as well as a documentary that she wants to build up hype for. I see these pot shots on Sanders as more a means to an end, as opposed to some mainstream media conspiracy against the guy. But I understand why his supporters dig in and criticize “the establishment” coming at them. I just wish that they’d take a step back and allow for some criticism of Bernie’s platform and campaign, because his policy positions and his surrogates are not infallible.
Many of Bernie's followers look, and regularly discuss and debate his platform and positions extremely closely, I'd argue as a whole, likely much closer than any other base of supporters. The deeper one looks at Bernie, the more respect one usually has for him IMO. For his supporters, there isn't a whole lot to criticize, he's been exceptionally consistent, honest and ahead of the curve his entire career on a plethora (not all) of very important issues to the American people. He's not perfect, he's not a god, but he's a damn good candidate for president for many people.
I disagree with this significantly. Every Pro-Sanders group I have ever attempted to poke my head into is a huge circlejerk with heavy handed moderation that completely silences any criticism or deviation from orthodoxy. It's not as bad as the Trump crowd, but it is definitely bad.
This is a hard thing to discuss considering this is a rather anecdotal subject. You just criticize his supporters for being hard-headed, not open-minded towards disagreements and criticism. That doesn't mean they aren't well-informed supporters who discuss Bernie and his policies in-depth. Hard-headed (determined on his policies), not open-minded (not willing to compromise) is something Bernie is also often criticized about, and he is called Trump-like for this as well, which is very silly IMO. I think this is mostly Bernie, and his supporters simply knowing what they want politically, the majority of Bernie's following, in my experience, can regularly state over 5 policies of his that they deeply connect in depth without hesitation, which I think is not only very rare for a candidates following, but especially impressive considering how young many of Bernie's supporters are.
I didn't say that because I don't know/believe that. The data says Bernie supporters are from backgrounds of lesser means and lesser education, but that's as far as I can speak to it. Like I said, little "discussion" is tolerated from what I see. There is no room for exercise of thought. You either agree with the campaign, or you get punted the **** out. (I say this as a Bernie voter)
What platform? I'm confident that a pro-Hillary or pro-Warren subreddit would ban posters just as easily from straying from the narrative pushed by the respective candidate.
Facebook and reddit groups. The Hillary and Warren places aren't nearly as active so the amount of fire breathing and general allergic reactions they have to criticism are naturally lower. That may be a convenient coincidence, but there is no defending the Bernie groups as far as I'm concerned. Their reputation is well earned. Ironically on an individual basis the Bernie folks are usually a lot more open minded and pleasant to deal with. The Clinton folks are the nightmare there.
If you have such a conflicting impression between individual supporters and the narrative portrayed by the media, maybe you should evaluate that notion? I think their reputation by the conventional media is not well earned. Especially the "Bernie Bros" narrative that they are misogynists. On Reddit, I've been accused of being sexist and was promptly banned from r/Elizabethwarren merely for suggesting that Warren might not be completely forth right with her description of what Bernie said to her in private. Merely accusing someone like Hillary or Warren fo lying brings forth the righteous hand of the corporate media coming to their defense and labeling a Bernie supporter who labeled them that as sexist.
+1 It’s more than just a Bernie subreddit. The online Bernie community dominates political discussion on Twitter and r/politics, and man are they insufferable. The media is out to get him, all other candidates are corporate shills, supporting anything but M4A makes you dumb and heartless, etc etc. I’m a fan of Bernie’s idealism and his remarkable consistency on core issues. I disagree with his policy proposals, but if I try to voice that at all, I meet the wrath of his online fan base. It’s magnitudes worse than any other Dem candidate.
I think these things are largely true. This is where they lose me. The righteous indignation and moralizing. The purity tests get old very quickly.
At least their purity test is in the realm of policy. Labeling anyone who didn't support Hillary as misogynist? Or the media stating that the only reason people support Bernie over Warren is for sexist reasons as they believe they have the same policy... Those purity tests arf fine right? "I'm with HER"
If you are going to say one candidate disproportionately attracts supporters who are more prone to "purity tests" I think a relevant counter argument is to show how other major candidates have their fair share of "purity test" supporters. Also, from my anecdotal experience being surrounded by upper middle class second generation high skilled South Asian Americans and immigrants who are primarily in fields such as medicine and engineering who absorb tradional mainstream news outlets such as CNN, I know more moderate candidate supporters who have flat out said that they are going to abstained from voting if Bernie is the candidate than I know of Bernie supporters refusing to support any of moderate candidates if they win the nomination. I would say the Biden, Klobachar crowd are far less willing to support Bernie if he were the nominee compared to if one of those establishment candidates won the nomination.
I associated "huge circlejerk" and "completely silences any criticism or deviation from orthodoxy" to you feeling his supporters being hard-headed and not being open-minded. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I just thought those were honest interpretations of those sentences. I've heard many say, Bernie / His supporters want it their way or the highway, no compromise, and then a comparison is made to Trump / his supporters. Do you think his supporters consisting of more poor non-college graduates translates to them being less politically informed voters than the other candidate's supporters? This seems like a personal experience you had on some forum. I'm not on any Bernie forums, I'm going off of people I've met in real life, some youtube channels, and some things I've seen on twitter (I'm almost never on twitter though. What were you punted out of for disagreeing over? I'm with you, I 100% disagree with not allowing for discussion, people should always be willing to explain their positions and tell you why they disagree with you, but I also disagree with people being called Trump-like over having left values that their not being willing to compromise on. I think many of Bernie's supporters are very attached to policies that they are very adamant about, and I think that is a good thing. The best way to get M4A is to demand M4A from our elected officials. Would you agree that there is a lot of discussion going on within Bernie's support, even if you think all the discussion is a lot of circle jerk? Do you plan on voting for Bernie again?
