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[OFFICIAL] Bernie Sanders for President thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  2. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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  3. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  4. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    yeah, I give “ national rent control” the same odds that you do, but the problem is real enough and is a contributor to homelessness (along w other issues).
     
  5. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    We already have forms of government rent control, I'm pretty sure what he's calling for is increased rent control, increased funding for these programs, more programs, which I 100% support, like you say unaffordable housing, homelessness it's a very real, quickly growing and significant problem.
     
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  6. Major

    Major Member

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    LOL. Do you even read the articles you post, or are you just regurgitating twitter feeds? The poll in question is about the general election - it has nothing to do with primaries. Probably any Democrat will be tied with Biden and Bernie in the general election in terms of black vote. You've gone from Bernie-bro to Bernie-twitter-bot. From your own stupid link:

    When asked would you consider voting for the following candidates for president in 2020?, 56% of African Americans said they would consider supporting Sanders in the general election while 54% said they would back Biden.

    ...

    Biden, however, still maintains a tight lead on the black vote in the Democratic Primary race. A new Washington Post-Ipsos poll shows that 48% of African Americans said they would vote for Biden if the primary or caucus was held in their state today. That’s a 28-point lead over Sanders, who gained just 20% of support.
     
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  7. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Yeah I read it. It tells me Biden's black support is soft and not as huge as some of these primary polls suggest. A win in IA and NH might turn the tide for Bernie like it did Obama. I'm glad you are reading this stuff though. I will continue to spam Bernie info for you to try and debunk. You can also ignore it. I don't care.
     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    We need socialized medicine... we can increase taxes to make it happen.

    We need to excuse outstanding student loan debt.... we can pay for it.

    We need national rent control and to increased funding... we can pay for it.

    We need to increase and expand social services.... we can pay for it.

    All of these are potentially positive things in society but all Sanders does is state unrealistic and honestly not possible scenarios.

    No... we cannot afford national healthcare AND student loan forgiveness AND a national rent control AND a large increase in benefits.

    It isn’t realistic at all. He is talking about increasing spending from 20% of the GDP to 38% of the GDP. That is STAGGERING.

    The amount of revenue coming into the government would increase by over 50%. That is an over 50% increase in taxes.

    The national deficit would increase by nearly 50% in only 5-6 years under his plans. There is nearly twenty trillion dollars in spending that he offers ZERO accounting for where it will come from.

    Also there are real economic consequences for increasing taxes by nearly 50% and that is difficult to forecast, but it isn’t good.
     
    #868 Nook, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  9. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Those bases all over the world sure the hell don't build themselves.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I support cutting military spending, especially private sector contractors.

    The total military cost isn’t the 650 billion like Trump claims. In reality it is about a trillion dollars.

    Let’s play a game and cut military spending by 50%. That is 500 billion a year saved. Over ten years that is a cool 5 trillion dollars. Sounds good.

    The latest estimate for the programs Sanders wants implemented over the next decade? 90-100 trillion dollars.

    So cutting the military in half for the next decade pays for 5-6% of what Sanders proposes. Where does the other 95% come from? Also that 500 billion for the military? That covers the increase in deficit interest under the plan for awhile and nothing else.

    At what point does the cost matter? The national debt under Sanders plans would become 1.5 times the entire spending budget. When does an absolute massive tax increase to consumers and producers become so large that it has severe impacts on the national economy? Would you be fine seeing your effective tax rate double and possibly triple?
     
    #870 Nook, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  11. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    You guys not supporting Sanders because you think what he is proposing is too unrealistic while the current president got money to build a wall, got money for a space force, got money to bail out farmers because he is doofus on trade, got a tax cut for the rich, increased the budget multiple times for the military, is playing 100 million dollar holes of golf. Where were you "how we going to pay for it" people then?

    The Pentagon every year is out here saying they don't need any more money for equipment and congress keeps giving them money. Where is that money coming from?

    Some of you need to calm down with this garbage. Obama found money to bail out banks in an instant for goodness sake.
     
  12. HTM

    HTM Member

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    We have to look at the fiscal reality as it will be in January 2021 when Bernie would become president.

    The country will be $23 trillion in debt with a $1 trillion deficit.

    Complaining about past administrations fiscal policy I’m sure feels nice for you but it’s unproductive and doesn’t answer the “how will we pay for it?” Questions everyone has moving forward.

    Vague “we will find a way” answers aren’t satisfactory. We need real answers.
     
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  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    $95,000,000,000,000 over 10 years

    Currently there are 180 million Americans working.

    The estimated cost is 9.5 trillion a year and 180 million workers would in large part be expected to pay for it directly or indirectly.

    That comes to roughly $55,000 a year for each working adult.... every single year for an entire decade.

    Sanders likes to state that the middle and working class will pay little if any of it. The rich and corporations will pay for it (although even his “plan” only covers 40% if you trust his numbers) and that already includes raising taxes on the rich and corporations. What happens when businesses struggle and lay people off? The cost of Sanders plan increases.

    You say essentially the government will find the money because they always have. Well there has never been anything with a budget of 95 trillion dollars. The sheer size of Sanders plan has no equal, or even close to equal in US history.
     
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  14. HTM

    HTM Member

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    I’d love to see the defense budget reduced significantly. That’s still not going to get you anywhere close to where you need to be regarding all the “free” things Bernie keeps promising... free healthcare, fighting climate change, free childcare, free college and post graduate education, expansion of other social services... more more more.. total fiscal fantasy.
     
  15. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Deficits don't matter. They never have. It's a republican talking point so Democrats don't spend on stuff that actually matters. Republicans come into power and start spending like mad men on that bullsh-t..
     
  16. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Well, we are in uncharted territory. Climate change is happening. We are going to have to spend big regardless or we are all dead... Plus these are proposals; no one is saying he can do a fraction of this stuff. If he hits on some things, not everything, the US will be better for it.

    Candidates promise stuff all the time then don't deliver at all. It seems the earnestness of Sanders has people scared he might accomplish something good for a change. What are you guys afraid of?

    3 years ago nobody thought Trump would get funding for a wall.
     
  17. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Perhaps I am ignorant but are those trillions including healthcare? People will be paying into that no? What we spend in healthcare now will go to that while getting rid of wasteful insurance companies. So I don’t know how much more it would increase beyond that.

    I just looked up how much the US spent on pell grants in a year and it was 35 billion in 2013. And last year public college cost 75 billion. So those numbers are what they are. A insignificant amount of the military budget would pay for that correct?

    What else?
     
  18. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    Just realize that cutting the military budget is not as straight-forward as just taking money away. Having been in the military during times of cuts, what it usually means is that the military ends up cutting a number of young enlisted personnel, young officers, or cuts recruitment numbers/civilian hiring. Equipment can’t be cut because long-standing contracts are in place. Bases can’t be closed because Congressmen and their constituents fight hard for them so that unemployment doesn’t rise significantly in their area. Wars and missions can’t stop because once we’re in, we tend to see them through (mismanaged or not has no influence).

    So basically, you end up cutting people; the same people that probably need those jobs more than others. It would make more sense to cut some higher ranking people (every general counts for at least 20 enlisted personnel pay-wise), but the higher-ranking folks aren’t going to make a decision to cut themselves or their friends. In the end, cutting the military budget raises unemployment rates and hurts the economy.

    As @Nook points out, what needs to happen is to review the military contracts when they come up and stop pumping so much money into them. I’d also point out that we need to revise the military pay scale and look at scaling back what some of the top grades make as well as look at our numbers at those levels. We also need to look at transitioning unneeded military bases over to the public in a way to assist communities that are completely reliant on them. Problem is, all those reforms take decades and require congressmen to be in power that are willing to vote against what most of their constituents want (good luck with that).

    So, instead, you get the cutting of young officers/enlisted, hiring freezes on civilian jobs, and the other party capitalizing on those cuts to claim that you’re unAmerican because of the specific cuts that are being made (even though are the reason why those cuts are targeting those specific groups).
     
  19. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    You're comparing billions to trillions.
     
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  20. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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