I think she was off to call it a concentration camp situation. I don't think she was too far off. Those in charge have zero concern for the welfare of those there and are only providing services because they have to. They created the situation there and they did it intentionally.
This causes so much outrage because we are talking about the Holocaust .... people get real upset when you make false analogies with the Holocaust. Also, this is the AOC thread. It's for discussion of AOC and what she says. There is a whole thread/several threads to comment and critique things Trump said. Every post defending/mitigating AOC has some sort of "WHAT ABOUT TRUMP" thing going on.
What is the intention of the camp? Let's spell it out. I bet the deaths are related with that intention.
The first use of concentration camps was in British South Africa. The Germans did everything possible to pretend death camps were called concentration camps, but at the end of WWII there was a distinction between the two. In the view of the public, they are interchangeable - I don't fault anybody who uses those two interchangeably- but technically they aren't the same thing. I'm honestly vacillating as to whether that distinction matters or not at this point in time, practically speaking. Examples of concentration camps that are labor camps not death camps are Majdanek and Auschwitz–Birkenau.
the "death toll" seems to have remained fairly constant going back to the Obama administration: This remains below the peak of 32 deaths in 2004, the first full calendar year records were kept. Deaths rose and then fell during the Obama administration, from 10 in 2008 to five in 2012, a period in which ICE implemented policies to improve detention conditions and oversight. But deaths then ticked up to 12 in President Obama's last full year in office, 2016, as the number of detainees grew. Under Trump, as the immigrant detainee population has surged still higher, the annual number of deaths was 10 in 2017 and 12 in 2018. ICE has said deaths in detention are "exceedingly rare," involving a fraction of those detained by the agency. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...detention-centers-during-past-2-years-n954781 More recent reporting puts the total at 24 total during the Trump administration (although this number does not include deaths at other facilities): https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...-custody-during-trump-administration-n1015291 Some of these deaths no doubt might have been prevented, but raw "death toll" doesn't seem to be much different than the crude mortality rates of any other country, the United States (somewhere around 8.5 per 1000) included: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sp.dyn.cdrt.in
Yes there is a whole thread to comment and critique Trump but you don't come with the same kind of energy when he says loaded stuff. By the way AOC did not make false analogies about the Holocaust it explains at lot that you took what she said as that. What about AOC that triggers you so?
I was in here and saw what AOC said about this which disgusted me and made me want to comment on it. I don't feel the need to police every syllable that comes out of everyone's mouth everywhere at all times and give an opinion on it. She called the detention facilities on the southern border "concentration camps" and used the phrase, "never again" - a direct reference to the Holocaust. So, yes, she did. She clearly made an analogy between the detention facilities on the southern border and Holocaust concentration camps. I think make comparisons between the United States and its actions vis-a-vis migrants at the southern border and the victims of the Holocausts trivializes and diminishes the real suffering the victims of the Holocaust went through and disgustingly imputes the highest evil on our government which is not deserved.
I don't think It was the right use of the phrase but it is not trivializing anything. you have also commented on other threads where something has been trivialized yet you don't come with the same energy. Why is that?
Yet you don't do it over several pages of a thread usually. Or you don't often think things posted on here are reprehensible?
Ha, dude, what do you want exactly? This is the AOC thread and we are talking about what AOC said. Sorry, I'm not living up to your standard of giving my opinion on everything everyone has ever said in politics.
I would like for you answer my question. Why does this particular topic get you all filed up? Is it the topic of the person?
I already explained that.. "I think mak[ing] comparisons between the United States and its actions vis-a-vis migrants at the southern border and the victims of the Holocausts trivializes and diminishes the real suffering the victims of the Holocaust went through and disgustingly imputes the highest evil on our government which is not deserved."
Yeah these are terrible places to send people, but these aren't s***hole countries. The so-called liberal left can't accept reality, so the twist and turn to keep their ideology. Mainly that these people fleeing aren't coming from bad places, but they are so bad that they are "asylum" seekers and should be 100% treated that way even if they are coming from a safe third country like Mexico. Why? Because they want to flood the border, swell their numbers of Democratic voters, and win via demographics. This is no secret and the smart "liberals" are aware of this. They know all they have to do is keep obstructing our border enforcement, lie about the situation to demonize anyone trying to fix the problem, and wait until their numbers are big enough. Anyone who says otherwise is either without a brain or intentionally playing stupid to this and trying to heave every possible falsity and label at the other side in order to bring more people over. The long game is clear... increase democratic voters in the next few election cycles.
I’m a Jewish historian. Yes, we should call border detention centers “concentration camps.” It isn’t just accurate. It’s necessary. By Anna Lind-Guzik This week, conservatives weaponized Jewish suffering to divert discussion from the massive human rights abuses occurring at our border. Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY), daughter of the man who called torture “enhanced interrogation,” colded Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) for using the term “concentration camp” to describe the growing civilian detention system, including the reopening of Fort Sill, previously a Japanese American internment camp, to hold children. Since then, Jews have split on whether it’s appropriate to use “concentration camp” outside the context of the Holocaust. There are those who find the term too emotionally charged, or who believe the sheer scale of the Nazi Final Solution bars any possible comparison. Though I disagree, I understand. My father turned seven on June 22, 1941, the day the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union. I was raised with the story of how my grandmother saved my dad and aunt with her quick thinking and a cramped spot on a cattle train leaving Odessa for Siberia. Those who remained were shot. As a Jew, I bear witness to the memory of those who did not survive. I’m also a legal historian, and my research on genocide and crimes against humanity has made clear that while the Holocaust is unique in its scale and implementation, the perpetrators and motivations are not. Genocide is a human crime, not a German one. In the wake of World War II, human rights laws were written in the hopes of preventing future tragedies, not for labeling the past. it’s important to note that despite the contemporary association of concentration camps with the Shoah, Concentration camps are not a Nazi invention. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, various imperial forces — including the British and Germans in their African colonies, the Spanish in the Caribbean, and Americans in the West — engaged in the practice of rounding up civilians into concentration camps as a tactic to suppress indigenous guerrilla warfare. By isolating the civilian population, fighters had fewer places to hide. Large populations of mostly women and children were held in terrible, quasi-permanent conditions, without trial, and died en masse from disease, malnutrition, and exposure. As early as 1862, American forces interned Dakota women and children at Fort Snelling. George Takei tweeted this week regarding the mass internment of Japanese Americans during World War II, “I know what concentration camps are. I was inside two of them, in America. And yes, we are operating such camps again.” Applying the term “concentration camp” to the indefinite detention without trial of thousands of civilians in inhumane conditions — under armed guard and without adequate provisions or medical care — is not just appropriate, it’s necessary. Invoking the word does not demean the memory of the Holocaust. Instead, the lessons of the Holocaust will be lost if we refuse to engage with them. https://www.vox.com/first-person/20...cortez-concentration-camps-immigration-border
https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...rn-border-migrant-detention-facilities-trump/ In the American consciousness, concentration camp is synonymous with the Nazi death machines across the European continent that the Allies began the process of dismantling 75 years ago this month. But while the world-historical horrors of the Holocaust are unmatched, they are only the most extreme and inhuman manifestation of a concentration-camp system. according to Andrea Pitzer, author of One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps, concentration camp has a more global definition. "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz." There have been concentration camps in France, South Africa, Cuba, the Soviet Union, and—with Japanese internment—the United States. In fact, she contends we are operating such a system right now in response to a very real spike in arrivals at our southern border. “We have what I would call a concentration camp system,” Pitzer says, “and the definition of that in my book is, mass detention of civilians without trial.”
