NASA Budget

i have a good friend that works for nasa so this isnt good news...we need to go the moon again.

 

My dad works for NASA so it would not be good news for him.

However, it matters not to me since he's basically disowned me. Still haven't seen a dime for college. Not because he doesn't have it, because he does. He's just that big an ass!

And hopefully, Lynus has money for a wedding, because I'm not getting any from daddy!

(i was kinda joking about that last comment-don't take it too seriously)

 

Somebody will need to install our new missile defense system.

 

On a more serious note, if this is true, it's a shame. Yes, I am Republican and I voted for Bush.

Between NASA and the US Military, America and the world have made incredible technological advances. The theory of plate techtonics was finally accepted when the military, during WWII made a machine used to search for submarines that used sound waves and measured magnetism. And while NASA has gone to the moon several times, there is still so much out there that we don't know about or understand.

Something that I wish would get more funding would be ocean exploration. We know less about the oceans on earth than we do about outer space. Scary thought, huh?

 

I fully support NASA and do not support cutting its budget. However, like most more strictly scientific enterprises our government is involved with (astronomy, most basic science research) the amount of applied technological benefits is miniscule compared to the costs.

 

Nothing wrong with pure science... and as someone who's slightly paranoid, I've always liked the asteroid tracking project.

I actually do believe that man's future is in space. Unless we destroy ourselves first, we're going to have to leave at some point.

And while I'd agree that the government sometimes mangles science projects, part of the benefit is in creating an economy of scale in which the technology becomes more affordable for private enterprise (we especially need to be doing this renewables).

 

According to budget estimates I read, NASA's budget will increase but it will be a MUCH smaller increase than usual, so it is considered a cut overall due to the fact that their budgets run in 5-year incriments.

As for science, profit should absolutely NOT be the motive. Because science is so often now funded by corporations, it has an extremely narrow view. Scientists often made the most startling discoveries by accident. However, now they are usually not allowed to pursue "accidental discoveries" because it isn't good for the bottom line. If that had been the case previously, we wouldn't have found a cure for polio or discovered the pasteurization process or found penicillin.

Additionally, as a society we must look further ahead than just today. Just because a program doesn't produce profits today doesn't mean it should be scrapped. When JFK made it our country's mission to go to the moon within the decade of the 60's, no one believed it could be done, but it galvonized the country and we made it happen. The advancements that resulted were astounding. Many of them, we didn't even realize until years later.

Science is slow unlike commerce. Our very survival depends on the advancement of science and it should not be based on profit motive.

 

Haven, don't know if the angry face is regards to my post, but I support NASA and other basic science based expendetures. All I am saying is don't expect a dollar to dollar pay off in the near term, or even in the foreseeable future (perhaps even in our lifetimes). In a similar vein to what Jeff said, we should do it because of the value in furthering knowledge in of itself, not application potential. I also support some federal funding of other things (monuments, parks, opera, theatre, other arts) without a direct economic or applied benefit that otherwise would not/could not be supported by private industry, because I think those things provide value to the public or improve our publics quality of life in hard to measure ways.

 

What is this ridiculous babbling?

Here is a good link for a list of some of the benefits we've experienced from the space program...

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

"Some of the most frequently asked questions about the U.S. space program are "Why go into space when we have so many problems here on Earth?" and "What does the space program do for me?" These are legitimate questions and unfortunately not enough people have been made aware of the vast benefits the space program provides that increase the quality of our daily lives. Applications on Earth of technology needed for space flight have produced thousands of "spinoffs" that contribute to improving the national economy, productivity and lifestyle. It is almost impossible to find an area of everyday life that has not been improved by these spinoffs. Collectively, these secondary applications represent a substantial return on the national investment in aerospace research. We should be spending more.

Out of a $1.5 trillion budget, less than 1% is spent on the entire space program! It has been conservatively estimated by U.S. space experts that for every dollar the U.S. spends on the space program, it receives $7 back in the form of corporate and personal income taxes from increased jobs and economic growth. Besides the obvious jobs created in the aerospace industry, thousands more are created by many other companies applying NASA technology in nonspace related areas that affect us daily. One cannot even begin to place a dollar value on the lives saved and improved lifestyles of the less fortunate. Space technology benefits everyone and a rising technological tide does raise all boats.

One small example is the Hubble Space Telescope. Much maligned at first because of its flawed optics, it still produced better photographs than anything here on Earth. Once fixed, it has produced even more startling scientific data which we have only begun to understand and apply. One of the many spinoffs from the Hubble telescope is the use of its Charge Coupled Device (CCD) chips for digital imaging breast biopsies. The resulting device images breast tissue more clearly and efficiently than other existing technologies. The CCD chips are so advanced that they can detect the minute differences between a malignant or benign tumor without the need for a surgical biopsy. This saves the patient weeks of recovery time and the cost for this procedure is hundreds of dollars vs. thousands for a surgical biopsy. With over 500,000 women needing biopsies a year the economic benefit, per year, is tremendous and it greatly reduces the pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time, and money associated with surgical biopsies.

SEMICONDUCTOR CUBING - NASA initiative led to the Memory Short StackÅ, a three-dimensional semiconductor package in which dozens of integrated circuits are stacked one atop another to form a cube, offering faster computer processing speeds, higher levels of integration, lower power requirements than conventional chip sets, and dramatic reduction in the size and weight of memory-intensive systems, such as medical imaging devices.

STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS - This NASA program, originally created for spacecraft design, has been employed in a broad array of non-aerospace applications, such as the automobile industry, manufacture of machine tools, and hardware designs.

AIR QUALITY MONITOR - Utilizing a NASA-developed, advanced analytical technique software package, an air quality monitor system was created, capable of separating the various gases in bulk smokestack exhaust streams and determining the amount of individual gases present within the stream for compliance with smokestack emission standards.

VIRTUAL REALITY - NASA-developed research allows a user, with assistance from advanced technology devices, to figuratively project oneself into a computer-generated environment, matching the user's head motion, and, when coupled with a stereo viewing device and appropriate software, creates a telepresence experience.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Advanced keyboards, Customer Service Software, Database Management System, Laser Surveying, Aircraft controls, Lightweight Compact Disc, Expert System Software, Microcomputers, and Design Graphics.

ENRICHED BABY FOOD - A microalgae-based, vegetable-like oil called Formulaid developed from NASA-sponsored research on long duration space travel, contains two essential fatty acids found in human milk but not in most baby formulas, believed to be important for infants' mental and visual development.

WATER PURIFICATION SYSTEM - NASA-developed municipal-size water treatment system for developing nations, called the Regenerable Biocide Delivery Unit, uses iodine rather than chlorine to kill bacteria.

SCRATCH-RESISTANT LENSES - A modified version of a dual ion beam bonding process developed by NASA involves coating the lenses with a film of diamond-like carbon that not only provides scratch resistance, but also decreases surface friction, reducing water spots.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Dustbuster, shock-absorbing helmets, home security systems, smoke detectors, flat panel televisions, high-density batteries, trash compactors, food packaging and freeze-dried technology, cool sportswear, sports bras, hair styling appliances, fogless ski goggles, self-adjusting sunglasses, composite golf clubs, hang gliders, art preservation, and quartz crystal timing equipment.

SOLAR ENERGY - NASA-pioneered photovoltaic power system for spacecraft applications was applied to programs to expand terrestrial applications as a viable alternative energy source in areas where no conventional power source exists.

SENSORS FOR ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL - NASA development of an instrument for use in space life support research led to commercial development of a system to monitor an industrial process stream to assure that the effluent water's pH level is in compliance with environmental regulations.

TELEMETRY SYSTEMS - A spinoff company formed to commercialize NASA high-data-rate telemetry technology, manufactures a high-speed processing system for commercial communications applications.

PLANT RESEARCH - NASA research on future moon and Mars bases is investigating using plants for food, oxygen, and water to reduce the need for outside supplies. This research utilizes Hydroponics (liquid nutrient solutions) instead of soil to support plant growth and finds applications for vegetable production on Earth.

FIRE RESISTANT MATERIAL - Materials include chemically-treated fabric for sheets, uniforms for hazardous material handlers, crew's clothing, furniture, interior walls of submersibles and auto racer and refueler suits.

RADIATION INSULATION - Aluminized polymer film is highly effective radiation barrier for both manned and unmanned spacecraft. Variations of this space-devised material are also used as an energy conservation technique for homes and offices. The materials are placed between wall studs and exterior facing before siding or between roof support and roof sheathing. The radiant barrier blocks 95% of radiant energy. Successful retrofit installations include schools and shrink wrap ovens.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Whale identification method, environmental analysis, noise abatement, pollution measuring devices, pollution control devices, smokestack monitor, radioactive leak detector, earthquake prediction system, sewage treatment, energy saving air conditioning, and air purification.

DIGITAL IMAGING BREAST BIOPSY SYSTEM - The LORAD Stereo Guide Breast Biopsy system incorporates advanced Charge Coupled Devices (CCDs) as part of a digital camera system. The resulting device images breast tissue more clearly and efficiently. Known as stereotactic large-core needle biopsy, this nonsurgical system developed with Space Telescope Technology is less traumatic and greatly reduces the pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time, and money associated with surgical biopsies.

BREAST CANCER DETECTION - A solar cell sensor is positioned directly beneath x-ray film, and determines exactly when film has received sufficient radiation and has been exposed to optimum density. Associated electronic equipment then sends a signal to cut off the x-ray source. Reduction of mammography x-ray exposure reduces radiation hazard and doubles the number of patient exams per machine.

LASER ANGIOPLASTY - Laser angioplasty with a "cool" type of laser, caller an excimer laser, does not damage blood vessel walls and offers precise non-surgical cleanings of clogged arteries with extraordinary precision and fewer complications than in balloon angioplasty.

ULTRASOUND SKIN DAMAGE ASSESSMENT - Advanced instrument using NASA ultrasound technology enables immediate assessment of burn damage depth, improving patient treatment, and may save lives in serious burn cases.

HUMAN TISSUE STIMULATOR - Employing NASA satellite technology, the device is implanted in the body to help patient control chronic pain and involuntary motion disorders through electrical stimulation of targeted nerve centers or particular areas of the brain.

COOL SUIT - Custom-made suit derived from space suits circulates coolant through tubes to lower patient's body/ temperature, producing dramatic improvement of symptoms of multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, spina bifida and other conditions.

PROGRAMMABLE PACEMAKER - Incorporating multiple NASA technologies, the system consists of the implant and a physician's computer console containing the programming and a data printer. Communicates through wireless telemetry signals.

OCULAR SCREENING - NASA image processing techniques are used to detect eye problems in very young children. An electronic flash from a 35-millimeter camera sends light into the child's eyes, and a photorefractor analyzes the retinal reflexes, producing an image of each eye.

MEDICAL GAS ANALYZER - Astronaut-monitoring technology used to develop system to monitor operating rooms for analysis of anesthetic gasses and measurement of oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen concentrations to assure proper breathing environment for surgery patients.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Arteriosclerosis detection, ultrasound scanners, automatic insulin pump, portable x-ray device, invisible braces, dental arch wire, palate surgery technology, clean room apparel, implantable heart aid, MRI, bone analyzer, and cataract surgery tools.

MICROLASERS - Based on a concept for optical communications over interplanetary distances, microlasers were developed for the commercial market to transmit communication signals and to drill, cut, or melt materials.

INTERACTIVE COMPUTER TRAINING - Known as Interactive Multimedia Training (IMT), originally developed to train astronauts and space operations personnel, now utilized by the commercial sector to train new employees and upgrade worker skills, using a computer system that engages all the senses, including text, video, animation, voice, sounds, and music.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Gasoline vapor recovery, self-locking fasteners, machine tool software, laser wire stripper, lubricant coating process, wireless communications, engine coatings, and engine design.

RADIATION HAZARD DETECTOR - NASA technology has made commercially available new, inexpensive, conveniently carried device for protection of people exposed to potentially dangerous levels of microwave radiation. Weighing only 4 ounces and about the size of a cigarette pack, it can be carried in a shirt pocket or clipped to a belt. Unit sounds an audible alarm when microwave radiation reaches a preset level.

EMERGENCY RESPONSE ROBOT - Remotely-operated robot reduces human injury levels by performing hazardous tasks that would otherwise be handled by humans.

PERSONAL ALARM SYSTEM - Pen-sized ultrasonic transmitter used by prison guards, teachers, the elderly, and disabled to call for help is based on space telemetry technology. Pen transmits a silent signal to receiver that will display the exact location of the emergency.

EMERGENCY RESCUE CUTTERS - Lightweight cutters for freeing accident victims from wreckage developed using NASA pyrotechnic technology.

FIREMAN'S AIR TANKS - Lighter-weight firefighter's air tanks have been developed. New back-pack system weighs only 20 lbs. for 30 minute air supply, 13 lbs. less than conventional firefighting tanks. They are pressurized at 4,500 psia (twice current tanks). A warning device tells the fireman when he or she is running out of air.

PERSONAL STORM WARNING SYSTEM - Lightning detector gives 30-minute warning to golfers, boaters, homeowners, business owners, and private pilots.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Storm warning services (Doppler radar), firefighters' radios, lead poison detection, fire detector, flame detector, corrosion protection coating, protective clothing, and robotic hands.

STUDLESS WINTER TIRES - Viking Lander parachute shroud material is adapted and used to manufacture radial tires, increasing the tire material's chainlike molecular structure to five times the strength of steel should increase tread life by 10,000 miles.

BETTER BRAKES - New, high-temperature composite space materials provide for better brake linings. Applications includes trucks, industrial equipment and passenger cars.

IMPROVED AIRCRAFT ENGINE - Multiple NASA developed technological advancements resulted in a cleaner, quieter, more economical commercial aircraft engine known as the high bypass turbofan, featuring a 10-percent reduction in fuel consumption, lower noise levels, and emission reductions of oxides of nitrogen, carbon monoxide, and unburned hydrocarbons.

ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM - The Flywheel Energy Storage system, derived from two NASA-sponsored energy storage studies, is a chemical-free, mechanical battery that harnesses the energy of a rapidly spinning wheel and stores it as electricity with 50 times the capacity of a lead-acid battery, very useful for electric vehicles.

AIDS TO SCHOOL BUS DESIGN - Manufacturer uses three separate NASA-developed technologies originally developed for aviation and space use in their design and testing of a new school bus chassis. These technologies are a structural analysis computer program infrared stress measurement system, and a ride quality meter system.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Safer bridges, emission testing, airline wheelchairs, electric car, auto design, methane-powered vehicles, windshear prediction, and aircraft design analysis.

PORTABLE COOLERS/WARMERS - Based on a NASA-inspired space cooling system employing thermoelectric technology, the portable cooler/warmer plugs into the cigarette lighters of autos, recreational vehicles, boats, or motel outlets. Utilizes one or two miniaturized modules delivering the cooling power of a 10-pound block of ice and the heating power of up to 125 degrees Fahrenheit.

SPORTS TRAINING - Space-developed cardio-muscular conditioner helps athletes increase muscular strength and cardiovascular fitness through kinetic exercise.

ATHLETIC SHOES - Moon Boot material encapsulated in running shoe midsoles improve shock absorption and provides superior stability and motion control."

NASA rocks, pure and simple.

 

HayesStreet, a very impressive list, however there is some very clever accounting involved. It is not like many of the projects would only be done/only not done if NASA is a part of it, and even more importantly, you could ask youself through NASA is it the most efficient way to develop the technology.

Let us put it this way, the extra costs to have people go on many of the missions (moom, Mars to be, etc) costs way more than any potential scientific benefit you could get relative to sending an unmaned vehicle to do most of the job. We do it (have people along for so many missions) for political or motivational reasons, no for its direct spin off technological value. My friends who work for NASA agree with this.

Again cost/benifit in an economic/pragmatic sense is not the best way to judge the degree we fund NASA, how NASA decides which projects to fund and how they decide to go about doing such projects.

BTW, a little 1% of our federal bugget now is about what 2 billion dollars. Again, I am all for it, but NOT because it is the most efficient way to derive economic benifits or develop technology. Other basic scientific and human reasons are why I am for it. I point this out the line above because it gives you a little idea of the angle that source is coming from (that measly 1%).

 

Hmmm, it is a fact that many technologies would not have been developed without government funding. Even if private resources were available for many of these projects to get off the ground, the ultimate concern a business has for profits inhibits the scope and pace of development. Instead of saying 'is NASA the most efficient way to develop' you should be asking 'Is there another organization capable of compiling such a track record of technological advances?'

You are assuming there would be funding and support for unmanned space exploration without manned missions. I doubt the public would continue to provide that support base without those manned missions. Not to mention that ultimately the benefits of resource mining in space will dwarf any expeditures now, especially since those are resources that have a finite quantity on Earth, and an infinite quantity in space.

The point is that you CAN justify NASA's budget soley from the technological advances they have produced. That is true whether you choose to do that by pointing to hard economics or to more humanitarian concerns like health advancements etc.

Even if you assume that the proportedly 'conservative' estimate (of a $7 return for each $1 spent) is flawed or exaggerrated, a $2/1 or $1.5/1 ratio would be enough to economically justify the program. And no, a couple of billion smackers is not that much money. What is that: two B-2's? (hold on now Treeman, I'm not sayin we don't need the B-2s)....

 

The energy department (atomic, genetic advancements), NIH, the military, there are other federal agencies that have had tremendous technological spin off benefits as well (health or otherwise). Not saying NASA is any better or worse (I would say they are more efficient in generating spin off technology dollar per dollar than the military, of course the latter has other more key missions than spin off technology), just that it isn't the lone hunting dog.

The first part is the basis of my point, the degree spin off technology is produced is not the key factor in allocating funds. I personally, don't think it should be for NASA either--I think the more general scientific and human achievements are worthwhile whether or not there are foreeseable technological spin offs. And I think the general scientific and human achievements are closer to NASA mission and reality than the technological spin off productivity part.

I don't have a problem with spending more than two B-2 worth of money into NASA per year, we can even throw in an air craft carrier I just think the financial benefit in terms of technological argument gets real fuzzy. If there is such obvious and clear cut economic and technological benifits than we should propose magnifying NASA's budget by a factor of 10 or 20. I think it is a fuzzier picture than this, you know if there were easy bucks to be made the corporate sectors R & D units would be all over it. There are some things governments need to do (like space exploration, many health related technologies) because otherwise they won't be done because of insufficent economic gain relative to the costs and risks.

 

I think we're agreeing on the core, which is that NASA should definitely be funded. I DO BELIEVE that we should magnify thier budget by a factor of 10 or 20. The reason we are not doing this is NOT an inability to confirm the economic return, its the lag time between the investment and the return, and the fact that a corporation most likely has a limited industry focus which would inhibit capitalizing on an out of industry spin-off. By definition, a 'spin-off' is not the GOAL of the project, its an advance that can be used for something other than its originally planned application. There ARE plenty of bucks to be made. The reason you don't have INDEPENDENT corporate R & D units exclusively devoted to it is (as another poster pointed out in this thread already) that you cannot tell what spin offs are coming until you've developed whatever the core project is.

 

Lots of people are still very skeptical of NASA. I don't think we should deny funding to NASA because of this, but it's true.

The government doesn't always know what is best when it comes to dividing their money. For years, the government was pouring money into cancer research. How great is that, right? But they were only researching men. That means very little funding (if any) of breast cancer, cervical cancer, ovarian cancer...etc. Only recently (as in the time of our government's history) has the push been made to include these.

While I do love America and our government, even if I don't agree with it, they don't always have the best plan. But then again, I don't really have a better solution. Not everyone can get all the funding they want all the time. I think it's a tough decision.

 

Princess, there are a few things government is undoubtedly the best (or only) entity that can be involved. Some things take too much time/money for any private firm to ever consider doing it. Others things have human benefits that by and large do not provide financial windfalls.

If we left all medical research to private companies there would be less cancer and AIDS research and more current alternates to Viagra and Rogaine. Just because government made some mistakes in cancer research doesn't mean that same research conducted by anyone else wouldn't have similar mistakes. It is not like the Microsofts, GMs and Enrons are not plagued by many of the same problems associated with a large bureaucratic organizations as the federal government is. Some things are better left to having the public set priorities (things for public health, public welfare for instance). Also, let us not forget the military is among the biggest pieces of our federal government.

 

Oh, please don't get me wrong. I know the government is the only "business" that can fund these things. And I'm not saying that the government is bad.

All I meant was they always haven't made the greatest decisions with their money. At the same time, while the government has a lot of money, it has so many places that it has to go to. Not everyone can get the money they want all the time. I know many people are complaining about NASA not getting enough money, and I tend to agree (at least I'm more on that side of the fence) but if NASA was getting more money, someone else wouldn't and other people would complain. I just think it's a tough job, that's all.

 

Damn it!! I want more money spent on LochNess!!!! Pull out the beast, dead or alive!!!

all kidding aside, I'm disappointed that NASA's budget will be cut. the space program has helped out in so many areas, including defense -- the #1 job of the federal government, in my view.