Most US manufacturing jobs lost to technology, not trade

Manufacturing jobs are being lost to automation. Screw it, lets just lose the rest of them to mexico and china. And when those go high tech automation, let them keep those good jobs.

The left: Free education some how creates more jobs (more teachers i guess?)

 

I hear all those Carrier jobs that were going to Mexico were actually being lost due to technology. As it turns out, Mexico has greater technological capability than the US.

 

US manufacturing has recovered to reach an all-time high.

Education is needed to keep high tech jobs in the U.S..

 

This entire robots are doing the work argument is silly. I'm all for free trade and if krnxsnoopy can only afford cheap shoes made in Dominican Republic then let all the factories that want to move there go. Mine will still come from america and england because that is where the good leather goes.


The real problem is illegal immigrants taking jobs of the low educated unskilled workers of the USA. An elastic workforce that enters and leaves the country to depress wages really hurts the workers the Democrats used to at least CLAIM they GAF about.

I'm all for robots picking strawberry if possible. We can't robots because Mexicans do it for so cheap. If you had to pay someone a fair wage you could get the automation and better jobs.

 

That has always been my issue.
Make New LAW: ALL EMPLOYEES Illegal or not MUST BE PAID THE Minimum wage/40 hrs weeks get benefits
Enforcement - 100 000 Fine for every INSTANCE of this not being upheld.

All things being equal . .. . why would you not hire an American over an illegal
When you have to pay them the same.

Rocket River

 

You don't need a minimum wage law if the workforce is fixed and there is no easy way to hire a slave class of laborers. As you say, why would I illegally hire a Mexican if I could hire an American for the same price?

E-Verify can determine who is legal and who is illegal.

Greater punishments for companies who hire illegals. Not just fines, jail time.

It is a free market solution to higher wages and employment.

 

Again, USA manufacturing is the highest in its history. We are a manufacturing powerhouse. Automation goes beyond robotics. It involves everything from machines and tools, to computers to better inventory management to better form design. You just need less people to build stuff.

There are less illegal immigrants in the US than there was at the start of Obama's presidency - more than a million LEFT the US and went back home.

The reality is that illegals prop up our economy because they are the ones being exploited - as they provide businesses super cheap labor that no one wants to do. Americans don't want to pick oranges all day. And if you get rid of all the illegals what would happen? 1. prices of oranges would go up and it woud be cheaper to buy oranges from mexico so you would actually lose American jobs through putting the orange industry out of work or putting people out of work through commodity inflation squeezing people to buy less other stuff.
2. You would reduce the number of professional women in the work force as they wouldn't be able to afford a nanny so would quit their job.

The problem is that reality isn't convenient to the right-wing and alt-right story - so they ignore and just make stuff up.

The reality is always much harder to understand and people like Space Ghost and Bandwagoner are examples of people who look at the issues from a biased ignorant point of view and celebrate it with dick slapping each other. It's too bad this country doesn't have the education system to have taught them to critically thinking skills.

 

That is a great moral stance to take. I propose getting rid of a slave class to raise wages for the uneducated and your defense is to keep them because exploiting them props up the economy?

Never mind the burden on our schools, the fact they don't pay as much taxes, send back billions in remittances to Mexico and are eligible for entitlements, we can getting cheaper labor for our corporations.

Brilliant immoral logic there. Hundreds of thousands of americans died to end slavery in this country already.

 

I didn't make a moral argument of course you lack the critical thinking to understand that. Sadly getting rid of illegals wouldn't help you get an education like you claim nor raise your wage. It won't help you upgrade your gun either casey.

On a moral basis, I do think getting rid of the idea of paying illegals less than anyone should be corrected. i am only pointing out the facts. Illegals do prop up the economy and our standard of living. It isn't a moral argument, its the facts.

Sorry you can't tell the difference.

 

Of course they do. So did slaves. They depress wages of the uneducated (you don't care), making business more profitable and hotels and restaurants cheaper. For me the moral implications, drag on our schools, and increased crime isn't worth it. With the rapid build of the wall coming and self deportations, it won't be much of an issue.

 

Yup - states like Georgia will see their economy decline

 

They will pay for their use of a slave class just as they did during the reconstruction era. Kudos to them to be ahead of the curve and start the pain earlier than the rest of the states when President Trump make E-Verify universal. Their schools and crime rates will improve far sooner.

 

Disagree.

I think it is just a question of making the fine stiff enough to economically motivate employers to never break the law.

 

No - what will happen is the agro jobs will move overseas as companies lose business, prices will go up, crime will increase as federal and state cuts hit the economy hard as well as the fact that instead of poor working illegal immigrants you now have poor unemployed illegal immigrants who have settled here. You are just trying to justify your silly argument without actually thinking it true. And you are buying into the false lie that illegals are the source of crime.

 

Total thread fail for not posting the article or a link outside paywall.

NAFTA did cause unemployment in the rust belt and small towns. The article mentions 13% from free trade policies. But it wasn't zero sum. Coastal cities and larger states reaped those benefits, but ****ed over small towns dependant upon those manufacturers.

This whole carrier story is weird and it's 1000 number is becoming largely anecdotal. Good luck and God Bless to Trump if he can push this on a macro level without triggering a run up in tariffs ala Harley-Smoot. That name is like Glass Steagal for those who slept through history class.

Most US manufacturing jobs lost to technology, not trade
Increasing protectionism is unlikely to override forces of automation
FT Data
Read next

Trump puts steel at the heart of industrial policy
DECEMBER 2, 2016 by: Federica Cocco
A focal point of president-elect Donald Trump’s campaign, that manufacturing jobs have left the US in droves as a result of bad trade deals, could be based on a faulty premise.

“America has lost nearly one-third of its manufacturing jobs since Nafta and 50,000 factories since China joined the World Trade Organization,” says Mr Trump’s official site, citing research from 2007 by the Economic Policy Institute.

According to this narrative, the US’s trade policies, growing trade deficits with Mexico and Canada, and China’s “unfair subsidy behaviour” are to blame for the US’s “deindustrialisation” and its disappearing middle class.

The US did indeed lose about 5.6m manufacturing jobs between 2000 and 2010. But according to a study by the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University, 85 per cent of these jobs losses are actually attributable to technological change — largely automation — rather than international trade.

The think-tank found that although there has been a steep decline in factory jobs, the manufacturing sector has become more productive and industrial output has been growing.

“Simply put, we are producing more with fewer people,” notes Mireya Solís, a senior fellow at Brookings.


US factories have been achieving this by gradually replacing human labour with robots.

“Automation has transformed the American factory, rendering millions of low-skilled jobs redundant. Fast-spreading technologies like robotics and 3D printing will exacerbate this trend,” says Ms Solís.

The Boston Consulting Group has estimated that while “a human welder today earns around $25 per hour, including benefits, the equivalent operating cost per hour for a robot is around $8”.

The extra cost of maintaining a robotics system — installation, maintenance and the operating costs — should be amortised, according to the group, over a five-year period. “In 15 years, that gap will widen even more dramatically,” it says. This process, as many have pointed out, is irreversible.

This is not to say that trade with China and other countries has not contributed to job losses. Research by the Ball State University found that 13 per cent of the overall job losses in manufacturing had resulted from trade. Another, more recent, MIT study estimated that rising Chinese imports from 1999 to 2011 cost up to 2.4m American jobs.

Overall though, what this suggests is that one of the new administration’s main policy aims, increasing trade protectionism, is unlikely to override the larger forces of automation and the transition to a digital economy.

 

That ought to be the Democratic Party's slogan in 2020: Your livelihood is anecdotal.

 

Let's give every company a 7 million dollar subsidy to keep 1,000 furnace workers in the here and now.

That idea works wonders for keeping sports teams. If wonders means things like moral hazard and robbing municipalities of their funding to pay for these companies to stay.

And great job knee jerking into another tangent without addressing the real concern of applying this form of success on the national level. I have a red cape with your name on it.

 

I think it's time that we give corps handouts. They have been suffering a lot. We need to end welfare and food stamps and instead give those programs to CEO's. The food stamps will help the CEO's create more jobs because they will have to hire a servant to use them and another person to throw out the trash. They truly are job creators.

Plus, now that the illegals will be gone, the rich will need the handouts to pay the higher costs of nanny's and gardeners.