Heypartner, take another shot, lie down, and have some coffee in the morning. You might have a headache, but I'm sure you'll be generally feel better in the morning.
This. Anyway as someone who lives in territory that was part of the Louisiana Purchase I am glad that Jefferson did it. Even though the wine, goose liver and kissing might be better I wouldn't want to be stuck speaking French and having to eke out a living trapping beaver or performing in Cirque Du Soleil..
That and Colonel of the Boston Militia, President of the Second Continental Congress, first governor of Massachusetts, President of the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, and a presidential candidate.
... as the richest man in the colonies, as the very first signatory, signing up for certain death if they fail and thereby solidifying the revolution, against the most powerful empire on earth. Yeah, that's nothing at all. I bet the turd you laid this morning is more significant than what he's ever done.
As I mentioned, Jefferson lived long enough and wrote so much that he reverses course on many, many issues throughout his life. To wit, Princeton University has been researching and collecting Jefferson's works and publishing them in a comprehensive set. The first volume was published in 1950. They are now on Volume 36 which only covers December 1801-March 1802, leaving them 24 years of letters and writings to go. No other founding father comes close to Jefferson's volume of writings--for instance, Washington's Papers are pretty much done and come in at 57 volumes while Madison's are finished at 37 volumes. That is a very coarse way of making my original point, but i wanted to look at yours in a little more detail. First, you claim Jefferson said one thing and did another. It is indeed shocking that a human being, not to mention a politician, would be subject to this charge. The founders were people, not icons. On slavery, he is absolutely open to criticism, even when considering his time and society. He was capable of making these statements... Yet he never freed his own slaves. He definitely recognized slavery as an evil and at some times he worked in the public sphere: He denounced the international slave trade in his first draft of the Declaration, he wanted to abolish all slavery in the territories covered by the Land Ordinance Act of 1784, he drafted a law against the importation of African slaves, he proposed a plan of gradual emancipation based on the age of slaves, and he opposed the Missouri Compromise. At other times, he didn't. For a good portion of his life, he thought slaves were inferior, but there are several letters towards the end of his life that suggest he had changed his opinion. That he said so many things opposed to slavery yet still owned slaves can be a glass half full/half empty fact. Given his society, it is in some ways remarkable that he even voiced the thoughts he did, that he saw the dangers and immorality of slavery. In this regard I think of him as a Newton who observed and understood gravity but was unable to put it in mathematical terms that others could use. Jefferson saw what was going on but lacked the tools or perhaps the willpower to effect the change necessary. He was close, but no cigar. All that said, many of the founders are open to criticism with regard to slavery. So, slavery. What else did he say one thing and do another. I know there are instances where he did, I just want to know which particular issues have you so worked up. On the growth of government, I'm not sure what you are referencing. Are you suggesting that growth in the size of government between 1801 and 1809 set the stage for the growth we have seen since WWII? Are you suggesting that the Jefferson administration's hiring of investigators to track down smugglers and enforce the Embargo Act is a major mark on our country? It's a puzzling statement you make and I'd like to know your specific concerns. And I truly don't understand your banking statement. Jefferson hated banks and his statements on such matters are one of the few consistent strains throughout his life. He and Madison tried to undercut Hamilton's formation of the National Bank claiming it was unconstitutional. The Bank was authorized in 1791 and the charter did not expire until 1811, and it would be 6 more years before a second national bank was formed. To my knowledge, he never wanted personal control over banks and never had such control. Jefferson on banks: As for his greatness, few men in all of history have accomplished more and fewer still have as much an influence as Jefferson has today. Even though he was the Governor of Virginia, a member of Congress, Minister to France, Secretary of State, Vice-President, President, author of A Summary View of the Rights of British America, author of Notes on the State of Virginia, author of Manual of Parliamentary Practice for the Use of the Senate of the United States, author of The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, architect, and inventor, he only wanted to be remembered for the three things he had put on his tombstone.. That two of those are words that continue to shape our national consciousness today and the third is an institution of higher learning aimed at educating young Americans and that all three apply to the world and not just our country speaks to Jefferson's greatness. He is not overrated.
I don't know about "most overrated" but the worst is clearly Alexander Hamilton, who essentially wanted to make the President a King. But here's something I found from a different "founding father" that I thought was pretty funny. Let's see if yall can guess who it is from: "Whoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with a man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter in the least." FYI, though you probably already know it since you seem to know a lot about Jefferson, his views on the economy/banking were very heavily influenced by A.R.J. Turgot. Jefferson didn't distrust banks per se, but the system of banking and paper money that he saw being implemented. And this was due to the influence from Turgot. Turgot was good, but like other economists of his time he was a bit confused about how land played into everything thanks to the physiocrats (Quesnay, Gournay*, etc). But still, he was pretty good and for those interested in the history of economic thought, he is a must read. *Gournay was the originator of the well known phrase "Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"
He refused to recognize Haiti as a nation!!!!! What would Kanye West say to that? And he wrote the best bible ever. .... And didn't believe in direct taxation!, and decreased the size of the military! Most underrated, Hamilton. He did Err-thing.
While Jefferson was certainly familiar with Turgot, I think saying that Turgot was a major influence on Jefferson is a little much. Turgot is only mentioned a couple of times in Jefferson's correspondence and mostly in passing except for this line to his son-in-law: There is certainly none of the profound discussions of Turgot that Jefferson was likely to engage in on say, Montesquieu or Locke. Yes, Jefferson had a bust of Turgot at Monticello (along with busts and portraits of a bunch of folks that were both influential and not). He was particularly enamored with inventors, explorers, and polymaths. He acquired the bust when he was in France and I suspect one of the major reasons was not because of Turgot's economic writings, but because of his contributions to Diderot's Encyclopedie, for which he wrote articles on etymology, physics, and philosophy as well as economics. The school of thought Turgot belonged to, and the class of public intellectuals to which he belonged, were more influential to Jefferson than Turgot himself. Still, he sometimes took issue... In his Notes on the State of Virginia, Jefferson mentions the "political oeconomists of Europe," but only to immediately dissgree with them about manufacturing. (See the whole passage at: http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/to...odeng/parsed&tag=public&part=19&division=div1) Be forewarned that there's a lot of stuff on the web by Libertarians and Randians trying to claim Jefferson by virtue of some of his thoughts on banking and taxes and currency. They also try to claim the early French economists and it seems that any link, however tangential, between the two (and other founders ) is exaggerated into something that is supposed to lend credence to current right-wing economic thought, such as it is.
I think if you were to ask an American to name some of the founding fathers, most would probably name Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and maybe Benjamin Franklin. I define overratedness by the perception of the general target audience (this being americans), so the only real contention for overratedness can be tj or g dub. That said, TJ is overrated.
Underrated = John Adams Overrated = Benjamin Franklin MVP = George Washington 6th Man = Alexander Hamilton By the way, the HBO miniseries "John Adams" is a must watch. Absolutely brilliant show.
